22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

Soviet fighters shot down 8 or 9 Ju 87s of the II./StG 1 during an attack on Kursk marshalling yards and severely damaged 2 or 3 more, altogether 11 shot down or badly damaged. What happened? Defending Soviet units? What happened to the escorting fighters?

TIA
Juha

Re: 22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

hi, Juha. here're smth related for your question

http://morpolit.milportal.ru/70-let-...dorozhnyj-uzel
http://allaces.ru/p/episode.php?id=362

best regards from shanghai

Re: 22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

hi, Juha. here're smth related for your question

http://morpolit.milportal.ru/70-let-...dorozhnyj-uzel
http://allaces.ru/p/episode.php?id=362

best regards from shanghai

Re: 22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

Hello Stukapilot
thanks a lot for the links, especially the second one was very helpful!

Thanks from Helsinki!
Juha

Re: 22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

First one is deceiving. Though having May 22 in its headline, telling about the raid of June 2.

On May 22 approximately 150 fighters of 9 IAK, 1 GIAD and 283 IAD managed to take off before the bombing started. At least one of the formation was approached before the beginning of attack and this caused some confusion which ended up in low results of bombing. Lt. Erwin Steimle, Uffz. Richard Hagermann, Lt. Karl Behne, told their interrogators that they were shot down by fighters before they reached the target.
In general 58 Ju-87s were claimed by Soviet fighters engaged.

Re: 22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

I would say, it was not a good idea to use the Ju-87 as a day bomber far away from the front line.

Re: 22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

Hello Nikita
thanks for the extra info and the number of the Soviet Ju 87 claims!
Yes, I noticed that the first link was telling on the 2 June 43 attacks. I had opened first the allaces.ru link because the site was somewhat familiar to me, and when thanking Stukapilot I didn't check the order of the links in his posting. I have become sloppy, it seems. I corrected my message to Stukapilot.

Thanks a lot for your info!
Juha

Re: 22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

Hello Guys,

Russian fighters losses 22 May 1943, Kursk:

519. IAP (Yak-7B) ml. lejt. Aleksandr N. Loginov (MIA)
519. IAP (Yak-7B) ml. lejt. Nikolai Baranowskij (badly WIA, not return to duty)

563. IAD (Yak-1) ml. lrkt. Grigoriy T. Kiriyenko (MIA)
563. IAP (Yak-1) ml. lejt. Sergei I Guskov (MIA)

508. IAP (Yak-1) sgt. Georgiy M. Khartchenko (KIA)
508. IAP (Yak-1) ml. lejt. Vladimir W. Ivanov (b/o before explosion a/c, pilot badly WIA, not return to duty)

168. IAP (Yak-7B) st. lejt. Ivan S. Yerdinov (MIA)

56. GIAP (Yak-1) ml. lejt. Vasili I. Mishin (MIA)

30. GIAP (P-39 Airacobra) st. lejt. Ivan A. Ignatiev (MIA)

This all losses? I don't know.

regards
Kris99

Re: 22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

Hello Kris
thanks a lot for the Soviet losses!
So it seems that the German fighter escort (from JG 51?) was overwhelmed and while it was able to shot down several Soviet fighters it was unable to give adequate protection to the Ju 87s.
On the Soviet POV, the interceptors succeeded, they effectively hindered the bombing and caused significant losses to Ju-87s even if suffered significant losses themselves in return. It seems that the losses Kris kindly gave included only those in which the pilot was permanently lost/permanently incapacitated as a pilot.


Thanks again
Juha

Re: 22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

Hi.

Luftwaffe pilots claims between 4:02-5:35 in Luftwaffe Map Pl.Q 62 112, 180, 181, 184, 321, 322, 754 and 63 574 is Kursk area.

04:02 Uffz. Rudi Meyer, MiG-3, 9./JG 51, 62 184 (3 km NO Kursk)
04:03 Flg. Gabriel Tautscher, P-39, 9./JG 51, 62 322 (6 km NO Kursk)
04:04 Lt. Heinz Venth, P-39, 9./JG 51, 62 322 (6 km NO Kursk)
04:07 Flg. Gabriel Tautscher, P-39, 9./JG 51, 62 321 (5 km NO Kursk)
04:17 Uffz. Rudi Meyer, P-39, 9./JG 51, 62 754 (60 km S Kursk)
04:25 Ofw. Josef Jennewein, P-39, 2./JG 51, 63 574 (60 km N Kursk)
05:13 Uffz. Helmuth Holtz, P-39, 11./JG 51, 62 181 (15 km N Kursk)
05:20 Hptm. Wilhem Gath, P-39, 2./JG 26, 62 180 (14 km N Kursk)
05:35 Uffz. Franz Krug, P-39, Stabsst/JG 51 62 112 (30 km N Kursk)

I have also losses II./StG 1.

regards
Kris99

Re: 22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

Hello Kris
thanks a lot for the LW figter pilots' claims!
So at least I. & III./JG 51 and I./JG 26 or at least parts of them made the escort force.

"I have also losses II./StG 1"

It would be nice to have the info, if it wasn't too much trouble. I have the basic info from http://airwar.ru/history/av2ww/axis/...-31-05-43.html
but I have no crew member info and a couple of the W.Nrn had only 3 digits, maybe the first digit has been 0 on these cases and it has been lost because of the database software.


Thankfully
Juha

Re: 22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

Hi Juha,

Luftwaffe losses 22 May 1943 in Kursk area:

4./StG 1:
Ju 87D-3 (W.Nr 100 032, 6G+VR, 100%). Crew: Lt. Hans-Dieter Winkermann (P), Uffz. Eugen Hanzetmann (BF);

Ju 87D-3 (W.Nr 1144, 6G+JR, 100%). Crew: Fw. Karl Brusse (P), Uffz. Wolfgang Like (BF);

Ju 87D-3 (W.Nr 100 120, 6G+MR, 100%). Crew: Uffz. Heinrich Unterberg (P), Uffz. Michael Kranner (BF)

Ju 87D-3 (W.Nr 100 121, 6G+HR, 100%). Crew: Lt. Karl Behne (P), Uffz. Richard Hägermann (BF)

5./StG 1:
Ju 87D-1 (W.Nr 2536, 90%) Crash in German teritory. Crew: Uffz. Walter Netter (P, KIA), Uffz. Franz Waberich (BF, WIA)

6./StG 1:
Ju 87D-3 (W.Nr 1237, 6G+PT, 100%). Crew: Uffz. Josef Schmitt (P), Flg. Günther Beyer (BF)

Ju 87D-3 (W.Nr 1093, 6G+GY, 100%). Crew: Lt. Erwin Steimle (P), Fw. Helmut Roth (BF),

Ju 87D-3 (W.Nr 1425, 6G+JT, 100%), Crew: Oblt. Walter Kleinbecker (P), Uffz. Jürgen Giese (BF);



Ju 87D-3 (W.Nr 1337, 6G+KT, 100%). Crew: Uffz. Hans Mraz (P) i Uffz. Otto Stier (BF).



Ju 87D-3 (W.Nr 1349, 30%). Bordfunker Uffz. Uffz. Willi Pfeiffer WIA

Ju 87D-3 (W.Nr 7333, 60%).



Ofw. Rudolf Everding Stab StG 1 WIA



also:



Fw 190A-5 (W.Nr 147 295) Stabsstaffel JG 51, Lt. Eberhardt Lücke MIA.





regards
Kris99

Re: 22 May 1943 Great Stuka slaughter at Kursk
 

Hello Kris
Thanks a lot for the new info!

Much appreciated
Juha