Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

On the 2 or 3 August 1942, the Soviet light cruiser Molotov was badly damaged by a torpedo hit to the stern at night. This Axis success is commonly attributed to the torpedo-bombers of KG 26. However, Italian MTBs were also present and they may have hit the Molotov. The confused nature of this action has been highlighted by Andrey, among others, back in 2012:

Is there any evidence in the documents of KG 26 or Fliegerführer Süd/Fliegerführer Krim that a cruiser was claimed torpedoed on either 2 or 3 August?

Regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hello Paul,

haven't Fliegerführer Süd documents for the time in question and don't know whether they survived the war.

The event seems more confused than I thought in 2012.

According Kriegsmarine documents, it was Italian MTBs success (erroneously claimed cruiser Krasny Krim sunk). Torpedo planes were mentioned as shadowers only, nothing about their attacks. Moreover, Fliegerführer Süd after 2-3 days of investigation came to conclusion that really Krasny Krim was sunk by MTBs.

So we have only Soviet documentary evidences about torpedo planes attacks - at night and 07:18 MSK, the last one was unsuccessful.

It is unclear for me what is the source of 6./KG26 claim. Maybe some info is in British radio intelligence documents? Or in the pilots logbooks?

According to Alexander Steenbeck (book "Die Spur des Löwen" about KG26), the attack was in daytime (Tagesangriff). Maybe really it is about unsuccessful attack at 07:18 MSK = 06:18 GST. But he wrote about the take off at ~10:00 (Start gegen 10 Uhr).

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hello Andrey,

Thank you for a very interesting set of remarks! I would think that if the Germans did not claim a sinking, which they usually did even with little evidence in their favour, it is quite probable that there was no German attack. Could the Soviet crew been confused by the presence of LaGG-3s or MBR-2s in the area? I have seen an 'escort' of some kind, involving a pair of each aircraft type, being described as involved in this mission. If they were flying beyond the range of easy visual idenitification and were not in radio contact, the crew could have possibly considered them hostile. There is also a tall tale on airwar.ru of an MBR-2 firing signal rockets to fend off an He 111 during this action, a sign of general confusion!

I am sure logbooks would help clarify the issue, but I have never heard of any surviving logbooks for 6./KG 26.

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hello Paul,

"Molotov" and "Kharkov" were without air cover during the night attacks. The air cover (fighters and 4 MBR-2) had appeared at daybreak only.
During the night 5 DB-3? 7 SB and 16 MBR-2 bombed the port facilities in Feodosia, but I can't find any evidence of their contacts with "Molotov" and "Kharkov".

German torpedo planes had shadowed the cruiser. It is info from Kriegsmarine documents. Soviet navy reports and AA Defence reports (probably from shore radar station) also contains info about continuous contacts with German recce planes.
But Kriegsmarine documents in contradistinction from Soviet reports hasn't any info about aerial torpedo attacks, only about Italian MAS-boats attacks.

Maybe British Y-intercepts and ULTRA contains some useful info?

3.Aug.42 He111H-6 WNr 4816 1T+JH (4./KG26) was downed by AA fire from cruiser "150 km suedl.Feodosia" according to Steenbeck's book (probably not S but SE Feodosia). All crew MIA incl. FF Lt Hans-Georg Bachem. I wonder if the exact time and location of the loss in known? Maybe in NVM report?.

Warm regards,
Andrey

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

This from Rohwer's Chronik des Seekrieges 1939–45:

Auf dem Rückmarsch Angriffe von dt. Torpedoflugzeugen (6./KG.26, Oblt. Wilhelm Kleemann) und ital. MAS 568 und MAS 573. Kreuzer Molotov erhält Torpedotreffer im Vorschiff, 20 m abgerissen.

= "During the withdrawal, attacks by German torpedo aircraft (6./KG 26. Oblt. Wilhelm Kleeman) and Italian MAS 568 and 573. Cruiser Molotov sustains torpedo hit(s) in bows, 20 m torn away."

Rohwer's book came out in 1968 so it's unlikely to be the last word on the subject.

In a vivid account, Rudi Schmidt's »Achtung, Torpedos Los!« says about 10 aircraft took part with two crews lost and that two or three hits were observed "partly on [escorting] destroyers, partly on the cruiser." No mention of Kleeman there or in the book's index. He does say that this was the first and last concerted daylight torpedo attack on the Red Navy.

While Schmitt served with 6./KG 26, quite of a lot of his book seems to be based on memories rather than archives (it includes an entirely imaginary attack on the invasion fleet en route from Corsica to the French Riviera in August 1944, for example).

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Yes but the internet version has more info than my Second, revised, expanded edition 1992 published by Greenhill Books. So it is based on info from mid-90s at earliest probably even more recent.

Juha

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Yes but the internet version has more info than my Second, revised, expanded edition 1992

Thanks, that's interesting to know. It's years since I last borrowed the book from the library.

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov (Post 229416) "Molotov" and "Kharkov" were without air cover during the night attacks. The air cover (fighters and 4 MBR-2) had appeared at daybreak only. During the night 5 DB-3? 7 SB and 16 MBR-2 bombed the port facilities in Feodosia, but I can't find any evidence of their contacts with "Molotov" and "Kharkov". German torpedo planes had shadowed the cruiser. It is info from Kriegsmarine documents. Maybe British Y-intercepts and ULTRA contains some useful info?

Andrey, thank you for providing yet more great information. On reflection, it is probably unsurprising that there was no air cover during the night, given communication difficulties. I would say that the relatively large number of Soviet sorties, including a dozen by twin-engine bombers, gives some support to the theory of mistaken identity. However, as you say, the information about German shadowers is firm, so there was some basis to the Soviet claims of torpedo attacks.

I hope some forum members who have seen relevant ULTRA material will comment here. I would pin some hope on Signatur RL 10/65 at Freiburg. Has anyone seen that?
Doug and Larry's excellent database probably uses the same Steenbeck book for Bachem. Perhaps it was 4./KG 26, not 6./KG 26, flying that night? If the Bewegungsmeldung is not in error, this was the only combat loss for the Gruppe during the entire month:

BACHEM, Dr. Hans-Georg. 03.08.42 Lt., 4./KG 26 MIA - He 111 H-6 (1T+JH) struck by AA from an enemy cruiser 150 km S of Feodosiya/Crimea - search was fruitless. 31.08.42 Lt., (pilot) awarded the Ehrenpokal.

Kleemann was indeed the commander of 6./KG 26 at that time and so could have been in the area, but there is no evidence so far to support or refute that assertion:
KLEEMANN, Wilhelm. (DOB: 31.08.16). (DKG). 01.04.40 promo to Oblt. 16.05.42 Oblt., appt Staka 6./KG 26 (to 08.42). 01.07.42 promo to Hptm. 10.07.42 awarded DKG, II./KG 26. 03.43 at the Fliegerwaffenschule (See) (to 15.04.43). 15.04.43 trf to Ob.d.L. pool (Sch.Etat). 20.05.44 Hptm. and Staka 8./KG 26, MIA – in Ju 88 A-17 off the mouth of the Seine.

Doug provided a very useful list of the other Staffelkapitäne of KG 26 on this forum, back in 2010:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=21606

Nick, thank you for the details from Schmidt's book. I wonder whether II./KG 26 was short of torpedo-bombers, or torpedoes. The Bewegungsmeldung suggests that not all the units aircraft were equipped as torpedo-bombers, see http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/kampf/biikg26.html On the other hand, they did have enough torpedo-bombers for more than one formation attack on Soviet warships, perhaps they simply concentrated on bombing sorties. Does the Schmidt book say anything about that?

In summary, it does appear more plausible that the "Molotov" was hit by Legnani's MAS 568, but this is only a provisional conclusion.

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hello Nick,
I read Rohwer's/Hummelchen's book of course and the web-version too. It isn't very credible source, at least in regard to naval war in East-European waters. For example, torpedo hit was in stern, not in bow. It isn't very significant of course. But sometimes authors even had used Soviet published incorrect data about German actions instead of data from existing Kriegsmarine documents. Or had used incorrect German claims about Soviet losses as real facts.

According to Soviet data, were simultaneous torpedo attacks from MAS-boats and from the air, but maybe evidences were inaccurate due to darkness. The origin of the sole torpedo hit was unclear from the first moment.

According to Kriegsmarine, it was MAS-boats success. More surprising that Fliegerführer Süd (i.e. local Luftwaffe command) after investigation had accepted the Kriegsmarine's conclusion without any mention about KG26 attacks.

Maybe KG26 really took part not as air recce only but by torpedo attacks too, but where are the primary sources about Kleeman's attack?

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Yuha and Nick, it only takes one click to solve the mystery:) The text of the digital edition dates from 2007, see http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/historie.htm I believe parts of it have been updated since.

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hello, Paul,
Yes, it is another puzzle. 4.Staffel or 6.Staffel or both.
Exact time and location of 1T+JH loss is really interesting.

Warm regards,
Andrey

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

I hope some forum members who have seen relevant ULTRA material will comment here. I would pin some hope on Signatur RL 10/65 at Freiburg. Has anyone seen that?

Not a year I've ever looked at but anyone who wants to try can view the material via the National Archives website. DEFE3/185, German Naval messages deciphered 5–10 August 1942, and /186 (10–16 August) might be a good place to start.

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Thank you for the hint, Nick! I have now skim-read quite a bit of DEFE 3/185 and found not a hint that any messages from the Black Sea were intercepted. I wonder whether there is a card index for these files. The files would have been almost useless for wartime operations without indexing, so do you think there is an index somewhere at Kew?

Does Schmidt indicate that II./KG 26 flew more bombing that torpedo-bomber missions?

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Perhaps Fliegerführer Süd knew that no aerial torpedoes were used, although it is frustrating if they didn't state it clearly.

I am not sure Kleemann was involved. 6./KG 26 was a famous unit, so perhaps somebody chose to assume that the attack on the Molotov was carried out by them. They could have also found out that Kleemann was the Staffel commander, put 2 and 2 together and got 5:)

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Interesting what means the record "Ab 22.45 Uhr eigene Torpedo-Flugzeuge an russ.Verband".

Is it means that planes were with torpedoes or simply from Torpedo Staffel?

:)

Warm regards,
Andrey

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

They didn't start a specific Russian Front naval message series until October 1943 (with the ZTPGR prefix) unfortunately' so all you can do is read a few thousand signals, allowing for the possibility that the decrypt occurred after some delay.

A card index? In your dreams! There was one at Bletchley Park but it may not have survived. Alternatively it may be among the 3,000,000 pages of material that the Bletchley Park Museum is digitising, with no word of an end date. Meanwhile, why wouldn't a person want to read thousands of decrypts?

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

That should mean that the word greifen - "attack" was left out so save space, so the text means "at 22.45 our torpedo aircraft attacked a Russian squadron". However, one can also speculate that the staff clerk knew that a torpedo-bomber unit was operational that night, but did not know that it was not carrying torpedoes on the specific mission in question:)

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Most of the important events in the Black Sea were long past by October 1943, but ZTPGR may prove useful anyway, thank you.

It takes 6 years to fight a catastrophic World War, but 71 years and counting to find one of the card indexes created during the conflict! Given just how much information there is in the various decrypts, it is a great shame that the card index has either been lost or is yet to be rediscovered.

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Here is the translated KTB SKL entry for the Black Sea on 3 August 1942:
"Long-range air reconnaissance reports that on the afternoon of 2 Aug., a force of 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, and 4 escort vessels, proceeding at high speed on a westerly course, was observed 20 miles west -northwest of Tuapse. According to continuous reports from shadowing planes,' the force was steering a northwesterly to northerly course, and at 1945 it was 50 miles south of Anapa. By evaluation of photographs the larger vessels have been tentatively identified as a heavy cruiser of the KIROV class and the flotilla leader KHARKOV. From 2245 on, our torpedo planes followed the force whose position at 2351 was reported as 10 miles southwest of Cape Opuk on a 20° course. After midnight, Italian submarine chasers attacked the force some 20 miles south of Feodosiya. According to further sighting reports, at 0455 the 2 vessels were located with 7 escort vessels on a 110° course south-southwest of Anapa and at 0650 with 15 PT boats on a 150° course southwest of Novorossisk. Since, in addition to the force which was sighted, the Main Naval Direction Finding Station at Constanta located the cruiser KRASNY KRIM in the same area at the same time, it is not impossible that several groups participated in the thrust towards the Crimean coast. Group South has requested the Air Commander, South to check on this possibility."

The actions of the three Italian MAS boats that were at sea to cover a convoy of landing barges is also described:
"Of the three Italian submarine chasers protecting the break-through, MAS-573 stopped in her patrol position 5 miles south of Feodosiya as a result of engine failure. At 2400, she sighted an enemy force of 1 three-funnel cruiser and 1 flotilla leader and launched 2 torpedoes against the cruiser at a distance of barely 100 m. One of the torpedoes hit the target. At 0130, the MAS-568, which had been notified in the meantime, attacked the cruiser with 2 torpedoes, hitting her with both. The Italians are certain that the burning ship sank. The 2 subchasers were then pursued by the flotilla leader but reached the base undamaged. During the subsequent search on the morning of 3 Aug., subchaser MAS-569 found wreckage and equipment at the place where the torpedo attack had occurred. It is not yet quite clear what vessel was attacked and probably sunk, since the force located on the morning of 3 Aug. was located later in its original strength. During the same night, around midnight, Ivan-Baba was under continuous air attack and a simultaneous attack from the sea. The attack from the sea may be taken as another proof that other enemy naval forces were operating off the Crimean coast."

Entry from 6 August 1942 concerning the night of 2/3 August:
"Concerning the sinking of a Russian vessel by an Italian submarine chaser on the night of 2 Aug., the Air Commander, South reports in accord with the Italian subchaser flotilla command that, after checking all the data, he now shares the belief that 2 separate enemy forces were involved on the night of the operation and that the Italian submarine chasers sank the cruiser KRASFY KRIM. This opinion is based on findings of the radio intelligence
service."

There is also an entry on 13 August 1942 concerning the night of 2/3 August:
"Since according to interpretation of photographs taken on 9 Aug. and according to radio intelligence, the cruiser KRASNY KRIM is evidently undamaged, the vessel sunk by Italian subchasers on 3 Aug. was probably a three-funnel destroyer. This assumption on the part of the Naval Staff is recorded in the War Diary, 3 Aug."

Here is what can be found in the KTB Admiral Schwarzes Meer about this action:
2 August 1942: "Radio intelligence reports: Increasing fleet movements and continued lively U-boat activity. In the sea area of the middle east coast a large unit - possibly cruiser - the flotilla leader CHARKOV and two destroyers at sea. After detection by the M.P.H.S. this force proceeded northwards in the evening. After midnight the cruiser KRASNY KRIM was also in the middle of the east coast, also the same guard ships, minesweepers and motor torpedo boats active in the northeast of the Black Sea as the day before.
3 August 1942: At 0003 on 3 Aug. aircraft employed as shadowers by Air Commander, South report that they observed gunfire from the discovered force about 27 nm southeast of Feodosiya. Situation dispatches indicate that the coast in the above area has been shelled from sea. After the bombardment was completed the force withdraw at high speed and was spotted leaving on a main couse of 120° 30 nm west of Novorossiysk at 0455 and lying at anchor in the roads of Tuapse at 1957. Apparently the ships kept radio silence during the whole operation as the M.P.H.S. reported waning activity."

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Whilst you could infer the absence of »greifen«, it just looks like the clipped language that armed forces use the world over: "From 22.45 hrs. own torpedo aircraft against Russ. formation."

It's not anything provable but I think that if the clerk wrote "torpedo aircraft", that's likely what they carried. Look at KG 26 in Summer 1944 when the II. Gruppe was converted from torpedo to conventional bombing. This entailed fitting bombsights, bomb shackles and oxygen for the crew (none of which a torpedo machine needed) so switching a Ju 88 from one role to the other wasn't a quick process.

it is a great shame that the card index has either been lost or is yet to be rediscovered.

On the other hand its absence does enable you to read and draw your own conclusions from the material …

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hi Andrey,

A Do 24 crew was searching for a He 111 in Pl.Qu. 6524 between 06:05 and 10:25 on 3 August 1942. The Do 24 pilot noted that the relevant unit was II./K.G. 26. On an unrelated, note, I'll reply to your emails in the not too distant future - sorry for the delay.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hello Rainer,

Thank you, this provides a surprising look into the limited capacities of German intelligence in the area, despite the availability of relatively numerous reconnaisance aircraft. Since I have been interested in this action for a while, I made some notes about the whereabouts of the four cruisers of the Black Sea Fleet at this time. As you will see, no cruiser apart from the Molotov was involved:

Krasnyi Krym (Красный Крым – Red Crimea) was in Batumi until 5 August, when it sailed to assist in the evacuation of Novorossiysk

Krasnyi Kavkaz (Красный Кавказ – Red Caucasus) was finishing repairs in Poti after being damaged by air attack (possibly by Stukas) on 4 January. It sailed for sea trials on 17 August.

Voroshilov (Ворошилов) had just finished repairs in Tuapse on 24 July, after suffering a turbine failure on 20 May during its last sortie to Sevastopol. There is no firm information about its location on 3 August, but it was probably not at sea.

For reference, Molotov (Молотов) spent a year in repair in Poti after the torpedo hit discussed here. The stern of the incomplete cruiser Frunze (Фрунзе) was fitted to the Molotov, which entered service again on 31 July 1943.

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Nick, thank you for a more literal translation of the original German. I agree that the reference to “torpedo aircraft” should be specific, but I am surprised by the absence of further comment, such as “n torpedoes dropped” or “hits observed”. I may be talking out of turn, for Andrey has seen the original document and I have not.

It is an interesting question in and of itself whether a He 111 H-6 LT could be converted back for use as a conventional bomber more easily than a Ju 88 A-4 LT . The pictures at the end of this link would suggest that the Heinkel conversion was relatively extensive, so my original hypothesis about the use of these aircraft as level bombers is probably wrong - https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic...-2#entry412541

I would gladly read through the material, if only I had time:). On a further dive into DEFE 3, there does not appear to be any material for these specific days, but there may be something within the great HW forest!

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Well, I've only been working on it since 1989, so I haven't got all that far yet.

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

The thirtieth anniversary is not far distant, perhaps you should celebrate that at Kew with a few other members:) Persistence is certainly necessary in this field.

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hi Andrew,

Thank you! So He111 lost before 06:05.
Pl.Qu. 6524 - is it Luftwaffe Qu. or Kriegsmarine Qu.?

I'll look forward.

Cheers,
Andrey

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

If these coordinates are from a Luftwaffe grid, then Zusatzzahlgebiet 34 Ost provides a good match, specifically coordinates 44°52’30"N 36°35'E , a location south of the Kerch strait. This would have been along the Molotov's return route, if I understand correctly.

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hi Andrey,

I assumed it was the Luftwaffe Qu., given the Do 24 was flying from Feodosiya, and 6524 on the Luftwaffe grid placed it not far south of Kerch. Just had another look and realised the full Flugbuch entry was "6524, 5520, 5530, 6510. In 6524 v. 3 russ. Schnellbooten beschossen worden."

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hi Andrew,

Thank you! If Flugbuch entry was "6524, 5520, 5530, 6510", it is certainly Luftwaffe grid system.
Marine Qu. CL6524 not very far from 6524 (south-eastward).

Cheers,
Andrey

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hello Andrey,

Is there an online explanation of the Marine Qu. system to match that available for the Luftwaffe system?

The order and location of the areas searched is perhaps interesting:

6524 is the furthest East – 44°52'30"N 36°45'E (south of Cape Zhelezny Rog – Cape Iron Horn)

5520 and 5530 are both in Feodosia Gulf, to the West and possibly further West than the He 111 H-6 could have possibly been shot down – 44°52'30"N 35°45'E and 44°57'30"N 35°45'E

6510 is south of the Kerch Peninsula and still to the West of the location of the night action – 44°52'30"N 36°15'E (south of Cape Opuk)

There is some sense that the Do 24 crew expected a dinghy to be drifting westwards, probably due to the prevailing currents.

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

http://submarine-at-war.ru/docs/mari...24&newsquare=1

In the documents related to Marine/Luftwaffe cooperation both Lw and KM Qu. were used, often without explication. Sometimes it cause difficulties.

Warm regards,
Andrey

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Thank you very much, Andrey! That is an intriguing website, as is the less well-developed sister website about Soviet airfields, http://airfields-wwii.ru

I have just had an obvious thought, in hindsight. Were there any reports from Soviet aircraft of naval AA fire directed at them? If there were, that would give some support to the proposition that the crew of the Molotov was confused. Conversely, if there were no such reports, it would be more likely that KG 26 did in fact attack the Molotov.

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Didn't research the events of 2/3.Aug.43 in details. Fighters claimed a He111 damaged (later was scored as downed) at 07:40+ MSK = 06:40 GST. But at the moment Germans had used bombs, not torpedoes.

It wasn't the missing He111 1T+JH from 4./KG26 because according to Andrew's post #21 Do24 had searched the missing He111 from 06:05 GST. Whether the other German losses are known for 2/3.Aug.42?

Published data about ships AA fire victims are controversial but probably 1 downed and 1 damaged planes were claimed.

Warm regards,
Andrey

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hello Andrey,

Thank you for another set of intriguing facts! The potential use of bombs raises the possibility, again, that there was no aerial torpedo attack. I do not think there were any other German losses on 2 or 3 August in the area, although I have not read every possible source. Looks like there was some kind of attack at night, during which 1 He 111 was lost, and another attack in the morning with no losses on either side.

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hello Paul,

But the evidence about torpedo attacks by 4 planes at 07:18 MSK is in conflict with this version.

Warm regards,
Andrey

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hello Andrey,

Yes, the situation is very confused. 07:18 MSK was the morning after the Molotov was torpedoed, wasn't it?

Warm regards,

Paul

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Yes, it was unsuccessful morning attack, Molotov was torpedoed some hours earlier.

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

It seems the time of loss of He111 1T+JH from 4./KG26 has fixed.
At 02:33 msk (01:33 MEZ) "Molotov" shot down a torpedo plane. The plane had inflamed in the air and then burned at sea 3-5 minutes.
At the same time (01:30=02:30 msk) MAS568 had attacked the cruiser with 2 torpedoes and claimed 2 hits (zero hits really). "Molotov" saw the boat and open fire at 02:30 msk.

At 01:30=02:30 msk Germans in Feodosia and on coastal battery (50 km away!) saw the burst and heard the sound of explosion. So later it was assumed as a firm evidence of the successful attack of MAS368. But really it was explosion of the German plane. As Luftwaffe had a sole loss over Black Sea 2-3.Aug.42, it was He111 1T+JH from 4./KG26.

Just to be safe, a question about losses of 4.(F)/122 operated over Black Sea. According to Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen, 4.(F)/122 had two losses in Aug.42. I know about the loss 23.Aug but when was 2nd loss?

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

In the excellent Joel Hayward's book "Stopped at Stalingrad" is mentioned, that daily report of Fliegerführer Süd for 3.Aug.42 (Tagesabschlussmeldung Fl.Führ.Süd für 3.8.42) survived the war (with reference to USAFHRA K113.309-3 vol.6 Fl.Führ.Süd Ia Nr.: 4450/42 geh.). Maybe content of this report is known to some forum participants?

Re: Did KG 26 hit the cruiser Molotov in 1942?
 

Hello Andrey,

Thank you for looking further at this interesting incident. Do you mean that you have found the German report for the time of loss of the Heinkel and it matches Soviet information?

If MAS 568 did not hit the Molotov, then who did? Was it the crew of the lost Heinkel?

4.(F)/122 did not lose any other aircraft in August.

Warm regards,

Paul