Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Can anyone give more info than what Wiki gives on this pilot.

Thanks

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Hi

He was born on 11th November 1923. Formally with ZG26. On 29th October 1944 he rammed a British Spitfire and baled-out of his Me262 unhurt near Nordhausen. He was killed on 26th November 1944 when he crashed his Me262 near Lechfeld flying for 9./JG 7.
I believe by memory that the first "jet ace" was Franz Schall(by memory), in fact Schreiber only had four confirmed "kills" with the jet.

Claims were:-

14th October 1943 2./ZG101 B-17 Mitbrunnwald 1634 hrs Nr.1
26th July 1944 1./Kdo.262 Mosquito u/c
2nd August 1944 1./Kdo.262 Spitfire u/c
5th September 1944 1./Kdo.262 Spitfire near Stuttgart 1441 hrs Nr.2
28th October 1944 1./Kdo.Now Spitfire 1310 hrs Nr.3
29th October 1944 P-38 Bramsche/Hopstein 1200 hrs Nr.4
29th October 1944 Spitfire near Nordheim 1540 hrs Nr.5

Schall confirmed his fifth "jet kill" on 8th November 1944 plus one unconfirmed.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

On 29.10.1944 he rammed a Spitfire. His Me 262 WNr. 110387 crashed near Tubbergen in the Netherlands.

Regards,

John

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Hi Kutscha,

1. 26.07.44 in Me 262 S12 W.Nr. 130017 'white 4' of EKdo 262 Schreiber claimed a Mosquito. I can find no matching loss. However on the 25th, F/Lt. A.E. Wall and P/O Lobban in Mosquito PRXVI MM273 "P" of 544 Sqn. RAF eluded a Me 262.

2. 02.08.44 Schreiber claimed a Spitfire. I can find no matching loss.

3. 24.08.44 Perhaps in 'white 4' again, Schreiber claimed a PR Spitfire in GGS: 8,000m.:10:55 hrs. which matches Spitfire PRXI EN338 of 683 Sqn RAF flown by F/Lt. Francis Neville Crane.

4. 24.08.44 Perhaps Schreiber was the EKdo 262 pilot that shot down a B-17 match B-17G-20-VE 42-97558 of 748 BS/457 BG, piloted by Lt. Ted Shaw.

5. 26.08.44 Schreiber claimed a Spitfire. I can find no matching loss.

6. 05.09.44 Schreiber claimed a Spitfire near Stuttgart: 8,500m.: 14.41 hrs. which matches Spitfire PRXI PL782 of 14PRS/7PRG flown by 2nd Lt. Robert Beach Hilborn.

7. 28.10.44 Schreiber in a Me 262 of 1. Kommando Nowotny claimed a Spitfire in HN-91: 8,500m.: 13.05-13.10 hrs which matches Spitfire PRXI PL925 of 400 RCAF Sqn. flown by F/Lt. William Wallace Kennedy.

8. 29.10.44 Schreiber in Me 262 W.Nr. 110387 claimed a P-38 over HS (Herford): 9,000m.: 12.00 hrs. which matches F-5E-3-LO 44-23729 of 22PRS/7PRG flown by 2ns Lt. Eugene Selzer Williams.

9. 29.10.44 Schreiber in Me 262 W.Nr. 110387 suffered a mid-air collision at 15.40 hrs with a Spitfire and baled out safely. Probably it was Spitfire PRXI PL953 of 4 Sqn. RAF flown by F/Lt Derek Charles Wilkins.

10. 26.11.44 Schreiber probably in Me 262 110372 'white 3' of 9./JG7 was killed when on landing at Lechfeld he hit a trench and cartwheeled at 10.20 hrs.

Best regards,

Jim Geens

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Ramming so much , is there any shortage of ammunition ??

Or the MK 108 was a no use against the fighters ??

Rémi

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Bizarrely,according to Foreman and Harvey,on 28/10/44,it's a P-38 claim and not a spit.
No claim on 24/8 according to them,he puts forward the Hypothesis of a date error between the 24 and the 26:it remains to prouve

michel

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Thanks guys. I was looking for info of his early career in the Luftwaffe - when he got his wings, what unit(s) he was with before going to the Me262, how experience was he.

Also, why did he hit the slit ytench.

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Hi Guys

Also found a claim for Schreiber on 5th August a Spitfire at 1441 hrs near Stuttgart from 500 metres, making him the first Jet ace, probably date wrong for previous non-mikro film claim you guys have mentioned. Mikro-film entries good until December 1944 when they become sporadic. Prior to 1999 lot's of speculation regarding claims cleared-up. Only other really reliable sources were flugbuch, and then you can never be sure claims were confirmed.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Hi Johannes,

Thank you for digging out this correction. We are indebted to your hard work.

Unfortunately, I now have to point out that of 1. date of month, 2. month, 3. type claimed, 4. place, 5. time and 6. altitude, four out of the six factors match exactly the valid claim of 5 September.

Jim

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

3. 24.08.44 Perhaps in 'white 4' again, Schreiber claimed a PR Spitfire in GGS: 8,000m.:10:55 hrs. which matches Spitfire PRXI EN338 of 683 Sqn RAF flown by F/Lt. Francis Neville Crane.

I have that one credited to Baudach...


4. 24.08.44 Perhaps Schreiber was the EKdo 262 pilot that shot down a B-17 match B-17G-20-VE 42-97558 of 748 BS/457 BG, piloted by Lt. Ted Shaw.

I have that one credited to Schubert of 1/JG 400. Aircraft details: 42-97558 "Tis me Sugar" of 748th BS, 457th BG. Lt. Winfried Pugh and crew all KIA

6. 05.09.44 Schreiber claimed a Spitfire near Stuttgart: 8,500m.: 14.41 hrs. which matches Spitfire PRXI PL782 of 14PRS/7PRG flown by 2nd Lt. Robert Beach Hilborn.

For the record, Hilborn was POW


9. 29.10.44 Schreiber in Me 262 W.Nr. 110387 suffered a mid-air collision at 15.40 hrs with a Spitfire and baled out safely. Probably it was Spitfire PRXI PL953 of 4 Sqn. RAF flown by F/Lt Derek Charles Wilkins.

Spitfires website says this serial downed by an Me163 on 14.1.45. Believe this entry is in error

I hope that helps...

Regards
Nick

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Hi Nick,

With regard to the mid-air collision on 29.10.44 it is in dispute:

http://forum.12oclockghigh.net/showthread.php?t=1619

best regards,

Jim

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Hello all

What are your sources "guy" for the claim of 24/08 ?
I have the books of Manfred Boehme and john Foreman and "co",and none of the two does not cite a claim on 24/08 by Schreiber but rather on 26/08.
According to them,the only claim by a Me.262 on 24/08 is a P-38 by the Obfw.Baudach.

michel

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Hi Michel,

From Tony Woods:

"...
Ja Fu 7. Jagddivision/ Lfl. Reich:
24.08.44 n.n. Erp. Kdo. PR Spitfire - GC-5: 8.000m. [N.W. Innsbruck Area] 10:55 Film C.2025/I Anerk: Nr. 3.

Supplemental Claims from Sources:
24.08.44 Ofw. Helmut Baudach Erp. Kdo. 262 P-38 - - Reference W.J.A.W. Mss.
..."

You are quite right. I should not have categorically stated that Schreiber made a claim on 24 August. However, I do think that this is the claim mistakenly given the date 26 August. Unfortunately I cannot edit my previous post now. I promise to be more careful before I share again.

Jim

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

All good, Jim. A mistake anyone could make

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Thanks, Nick

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Hi all

I am new on this forum ;this is my first post.

On 15 august 1944 a DH98 Mosquito PR IX of 60(south African Air Force) squadron was flying a photo-recon mission over Southern Germany.
It was crewed by Capt.Pi Pienaar and Lt.Archie Lockhart-Ross.
In the area around Leipheim it was intercepted and attacked by a single Me 262.In the ensuing and prolonged aerial combat,the Mosquito was severely damaged but managed to escape and make its way back to its home base in Italy where it was written off in a crash landing ;both crew members walked away unhurt.The Mosquito ,however returned with valuable photographic evidence of the Me 262 in operation.

In his 1982 book "Dancing the Skies" the South African historian and writer Carel Birksby devotes a chapter to the above encounter. In a footnote he mentions that Pi Pienaar,many years later,met Wolfgang Schenk in South West Africa (now Namibia) and they exchanged some war time experiences.According to Birkby ,Schenk told Pienaar that the pilot who flew the Me 262 on that fateful day was Alfred Schreiber.

The same encounter is described in Foreman and Harvey's Me 262 combat diary.They also mention the meeting between Pienaar and Schenk but they state that Schenk did not remember the name of the Me 262 pilot but that he recalled that he was later killed flying an Me 262.

Other sources on the net claim that it was indeed Alfred Schreiber, probably flying "130 017" (white 4) ,who attacked Pienaar's Mosquito.

I would love to know if there were any claims on 15 aug1944 by Me 262 pilots of 8./ZG 26 (Ekdo 262) for damaging or downing a Mosquito in the area where this encounter took place.

Any info on this matter would be most welcome.

Re: Alfred Schreiber, 1st jet ace
 

Guys, I would still like to learn more about Alfred Schreiber's history before he flew the Me262.