FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Hello,

Not a Dora buff, I would like to be sure this part is upper wing panel where stencil "Nur hier betreten" (Walk only here) lays.
The color is rather amazing for a part awaiting me for 73 years, laying on the forest litter.

Thanks beforehand.

ClinA-78

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

A very nice find and a great example of the brightness of the Hellgrün RLM82. Here's a diagram from an Eduard model instruction sheet showing the location of your stencil.

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Yes! I have to say you have an amazing find there ClinA-78!
For sure upper surfaces of the wing's middle area and exactly the area that in standard upper surface camo application would solely be covered by lighter of the two upper camo colors. Saturation of the color you have there is amazing! And again shows a single layer paint application on Luftwaffe metal airframes.
Would you be so kind to tell me if in the left side of the part there are any other colors at least in tiny areas, since part seems large enough to basically touch areas painted with darker upper camo color (be it RLM 81 or 83 - which is now questionable based on recent findings by Mr Ullmann).

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Hello!!

The paint pigment might be chromium oxide green, which is the color by nature and is very stable. It would explain the good colour on the relic.
For the chrome green pigment colour see for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium(III)_oxide
Or do Google image search with the chrome oxide green.

BTW (Zinc) chromate green is completely different colour and pigment (mix).

Cheers,
Kari

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Hello Kari,
I know that Michael Ullmann suggests Zinc Chromate use in later years of the war in Luftwaffe's resin based paints and explains greenish RLM 76 this way but I agree with you that above shown paint didn't contain any of it or at least in much smaller percentage than any other pigment (Chromium being an option for sure) in the paint mix.

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

The main difference was those lacquers could be applied witout any primer on bare aluminum.
That´s the reason beacuse those paints reacted so very different on puttied areas. Can be seen on the Me 262, for instance. Prefab wooden components received different primer and lacquer layers as well as primered steel components.

Regards
RolandF

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Hello,

@Milos : the part shows only this color, no primer. Dora 210264
Be aware it was photographed still wet, in order to enhance it.

I will provide soon pictures of others parts, showing others colors, nearly as bright! Moreover I have also parts from another Dora (600155).

Bye for now.

ClinA-78

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Surely he will be banned for this...

Bronc

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Only after he posts the rest of the pictures.

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Hello again ClinA-78

Seems my english is not so great so someone thought I suggest usage of primer on wings? quite contrary - I suggested there will be none :) I just wonder if 2nd camo color would show left of this one on the edge of the part since that's about where demarcation line should be between two colors. It would be nice to know if the wings were painted in two greens - since it's believed that in this batch's run wings were in two greens from W.Nr. 210079 according to JaPo gentleman.

And yes - the part did look moist but still it's very saturated even for such stage. Drying them with hairdryer helps after cleaning. But I always thought that if airframes were ever polished they would keep the look slightly closer to wet than purely dry... A discussion on it's own.

Would love to see 600155's parts too for sure... as other members here. And for the banning - I will vote against :)

Have a nice day! Regards from Shanghai!
Milos

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

real nice part, Nicolas,

do you know the background of this panel ?

The story of the FW190 it belonged to ?

Thanks in advance

Gilles

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Of course Gilles.

But as banning is gliding above me, I shall reconsider posting...

Be nice with the birdman or it will fly away :DX2

ClinA-78

PS : on allied board, is discussed the allied side of this combat which wears a mystery still to be resolved.

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Excellent photograph, can't wait for more!

Thank you!

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

As some of you cannot waiting more, here she goes:

Pot pourri of some fragments showing brown-green color from WNr. 210264 of Flg. Hans BERGMEIER, KIA on the 26/12/44 in Bouillon area (B), victim of 361th FG.
The (very few) camo parts picked on the litter where in much better state that others parts unearthed.

The blue part (at left) comes from WNr. 600155 whose pilot, Uffz. Otto SCHÖNDORF (POW) jumped very low but survived! He came back in the '90 to meet some civilians whom rescued him (his chute was tangled in an oak).

Up to you, Dora'olics

ClinA-78

PS : parts are now dry

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Nice photo. The color is RLM 82 Hellgrün which is commonly found on D-9s. Samples from different factories and recovered in different areas are consistent in color and quality and seem to have tough finish while some other colors are less durable. Dr. Pomper of the leading paint company, Warnecke & Böhm, developed a patented resin based paint formula named Ikarol. It provided superior adhesion to aluminum and magnesium thus eliminating the need of primer. This saved time ,money,material and weight.
Cheers, Jerry

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Armor plate, thickness 4 mm, 10/15 cm

ClinA-78

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Guys,
I am fully aware that what I am doing here (and I hope ClinA-78 doesn't mind) is not scientific and precise at all!
But still maybe someone would consider it helpful for any further (basic) discussion... I have taken middle values for each of the parts and created this:
http://www.hirtc.com/HIRTC/FW190/Fw190_D-9_ClinA-78.jpg

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Outstanding contribution, Milos. It is an interesting exersice to take your work and compare it with the published RLM paint chip colors and profiles. Thank you.

Bronc

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

comparison between both green's, poor picture.

The rolled part at right is painted inner and outer skin.

ClinA-78

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Dear Bronc,
It would be amazing if I had access to these parts with my cameras & calibrated systems with color checkers & grey card so we could establish the real close to scientific values of these paints - first in RGB and then further.
Above thin is purely there for "easier" reading of the crumbled parts & should >not< be taken as absolute reference, please! Just a support tool.
Glad you like it anyhow :)

And thanks for all the posts ClinA-78. What the Blue part could be coming from??? Which paint that could be? RLM83?

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Considering the Werknummer (600155), probably RLM 74.

600150 is a well-known JG 4 Dora, painted in 75/74 as seen in excellent colour film.

ClinA-78, since you know who the pilot of this bird was, I assume you also know the unit it was attached to?

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Hello Jasate,

I always imagined RLM 74 Graugrün as something predominantly green - not blue in hue. This color is for sure "off" when it comes to my imagination of RLM74 and it's even a touch too blue for RLM66 match which should have tiny blue cast IMO. It might still be an interior part and then RLM66 could be an option with too blue hue coming from the uncalibrated equipment we are using for observation of all these parts.

(Just to be clear because of my not so perfect English - I am talking about the part on the left side of previous photo posted with 5 parts)

Best,
Miloš

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Of course, it would help to know exactly which part of the aircraft it is.

Good to keep in mind that none of these samples are exactly fresh.

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

For sure! Maybe someone could recognize after all...

Absolutely true. Soil in which they were laying, weather elements, sunlight if exposed to it... all could alter the pigmentation of the paint in various levels depending on chemistry of the paint & pigment's source. That is clear.

BTW I was checking some photos today & saw a photo of retrieved Me 262's instrument panel that also had quite a blue cast on it... who knows.

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Hello

Some example from parts of two Fw190´s .
Picture a and b are from a Fw190 wich crashed in April 1945, pilot survived. We believe it was a fighterbomber from a SG. C and d from a Fw190A-8/R-11
from II./JG301, shot down on 5.12.1944.
It´s 0nly a little bit, but I hope it´s interesting.

Greetings, Rene

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Always!

Thank you!

Re: FW 190 D-9 stencil
 

Looking at the vividness and saturation of these original Luftwaffe colors, if a WWII subject matter Hollywood motion picture was made with reproduction aircraft painted in those colors: it wouldn't play--nobody would believe it.

Too bright. Too fake.

Seriously.

Bronc