Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

Hi,

Bought this crew photo on Ebay.
I thought there would be some clues as to who these guys were.
Aircraft from KG77 and clear aircraft code on Ju 88 of 3Z+GM.
One aircraft with this code was lost n Russia on 27th June 1941 with Obltn. Kurt Engel and crew lost. Can anyone confirm that this is the crew mentioned?
The photo on Ebay was captioned as KG 77 crew in Italy?

Any ideas?

Rick

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

Looking at the uniforms & markings I would say this is later than Jun 41 so all that can be said us it is a 4./KG 77 aircraft & crew

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

Almost all the pictures in that batch sold on Ebay were taken in the MTO area (white fuselage band) and some of them in Piacenza airport or in Piacenza surroundings: Gruppen of KG 77 were base there for rest and refitting in 1942-43.

One picture shows the castle of Erice, near Trapani.

Because one of the crewmembers in your picture held flowers I think they were greeted after a mission in Sicily.

Gianandrea

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

At least the following were lost at Italy:
1942-08-27, 4./KG 77, Ju 88 A-4, 0883633, 3Z+GM, Sizilien
Unbekannt. Bruch 100 %.
1943-08-16, 4./KG 77, Ju 88 A-4, 550035, 3Z+GM, 10-15 km von Südküste Sardinien
Notlandung auf See. Bruch 100 %.

Matti

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

Do we know the crews for these two aircraft?

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

Yes, some.
0883633:
Flugzeugführer Fw Mayr, Georg
Beobachter Uffz Fuhrmann, Franz
Bordfunker Uffz Schnitzler, Oskar
Bordschütze Gefr Übelhör, Willi
550035:
Bordschütze Ogfr Schwarzwald, Franz, vermißt

Matti

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

Caution. No info ties this particular crew to 3Z+GM (maybe just their mount that day), and planes and crews rotated - also mere speculation as to location (flowers grow also elsewhere in summer) and Italy 1943 is circumstanial evidence entierly!
- ed

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

In the same group of pictures sold by the same seller there was also another Ju.88, coded "GM" (3Z+GM?) with a big 20 on tail and a white Mediterranean theater band of different shape compared with that one of 3Z+GM shown in the picture bought by rickback4444.

The last four digit of this "GM" wr. nr. seem to be 1027 (I've succeeded in buying the picture).

Can anyone give me details about the whole wr. nr. and eventual fate of the aircraft?

Thank you

Gianandrea

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

Those aircraft sporting such numerals were usually from training units so possibly not KG 77

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

Could be an a/c of IV./KG77. I know that for instance IV./KG54 used to carry these large white numbers on the tail.

Regards,
Rudi.

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

Three Ju 88 series number ranges possible with ending "1027", two with that tail configuration. One A-4 "1027 w/o 1942 with 3./KG 76 but not known if real 141027 - I think it possibly was not, as this (later fin/rudder a/c) appears still going strong in 1942/1943 period. Complicating things, one Ju 88 C-6 also was 751027, known with NJG 101 1944. Note no antenna visible under fuselage, and extra "darkness/shine" of camo (new repaint?)

I fail see connection if photos really relate to each other, except MTO band, and it appears many units used tactical numbers on rudders/tail (also KG 1 and LG 1), not just "training units" - these too, but often on engines and smaller size. Letters A to Z also known (Ju 188).

-Ed

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

Thank you for the answers.

In another picture, taken at Piacenza, is visible Ju.88 ..+A. with a white 15 on the tail.

Could have been aircraft of IV Gruppe "leased" to one other Gruppe of the Geschwader during the Auffrischung period?

Which unit in the Med theatre used painting the last two letter of the code on top of the fin?

Gianandrea

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

IV./KG54 did. It was in Grottaglie from March 1942 till Mai 1943. But IVth Gruppe of other units might have been in the MTO as well.

It would help if you would post the photo.

Regards,
Rudi.

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

Unluckily the Ju.88 ..+A. 15 is very very far in the picture and no other useful detail is visible.

Thank you for the info about IV./KG54 codes on the fin.

Gianandrea

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

I've tried do scan the detail: the code seems to be ..+AM.

Gianandrea

Re: Information on KG 77 crew in photo
 

If it's an IV./KG54 a/c, which is far from certain, the code should be B3+AX (if A is white) or B3+AZ (if A is yellow).

Regards,
Rudi.