Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

Has anyone put together a list of German bomber pilots or crew based on number of missions completed? I have seen one of Russians .....

Also, on a forum I saw a contributor credit StG/SG ace Horst Kaubisch with 137 tank kills in a Stuka and/or FW190F. I haven't seen this anywhere else, so I ask, is it correct?

Thanks
Peter

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

Best book I've seen so far is Bruetting's 'Das Waren die Deutschen Kampfflieger-Asse' from way back, printed by Motorbuch-Verlag.

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

Hello gentlemen!

Yes-but there is only an entry to Oberleutnant Werner Kaupisch on page 120.
In January 1941 this pilot saved the crew from Hauptmann Kowalewski
out of the desert 270 km SE of Benghasi.

Herzliche Grüsse aus Oberschwaben,

Wolfgang

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

Thanks.
Sorry if I misled re Kaubisch - he flew Ju87 and FW190F in StG77 and SG77 and SG1, not with any KG. I maybe should have put him in a separate post.
Peter

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

It is in fact Maj. Horst Kaubisch (Eichenlaub awarded 24.06.44). The 137 tanks destroyed from his time with III./St.G. 77 on the Russian front. Later KiA on 12.02.45 flying a FW 190. (From Obermaier's Die Ritterkreuztraeger der Luftwaffe, 1939-45, Band II.

Tom

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

Thank you Tom!

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

We are confusing Kampfflieger with Schlachtflieger. What constitutes a bomber ace-missions flown, targets destroyed, tonnage of bombs dropped? Best books on bomber award recipients were the 2 listing RK winners likewise Obermaier's book on ground attack recipients

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

Sorry Chris, I just badly framed my post in the first place, and I'm paying for it now.
The list I was looking for was regarding KG bombers. There is a StG/SG list available already.
The lists I've seen are usually sorted by number of missions flown. Not always the best way to "judge" whether one is an ace or not, but then many of the various decorations were handed out when one had flown a certain number of missions. Of course, there were always exceptions .......

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

While Brütting was good in its time, it has been surpassed by Jochen Kaiser's two-volume Die Ritterkreuzträger der Kampfflieger, Luftfahrtverlag-Start, ©2010, 2011

The dilemma of using a raw number of sorties is that the Luftwaffe counted a mission of greater than four hours differently than a briefer flight. Baumbach's just-under 100 becomes 147 when one calculates those Feindflüge that were between four and eight hours.

Hansgeorg Bätcher's 658 Feindflüge, with 45 of these of more than four hours results in a theoretical total of 703.

Thus, on page 241 of Kaiser's second volume are two listings, one, "Die meisten Feindflüge," the next, "Die meisten Frontflüge," but many are listed only as "500+" , or even, in Bermadinger's case, "466+"

Pages 242, 243 include listings of oldest and youngest, the first few dozen awarded during 1940, the last ones awarded from March 1945, and a breakdown by rank at the time of award.

If interested in the Kampfflieger, these books are absolutely worth investing in.
GRM

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

Hello, G. R. Morrison.

What is the difference between Feindflüge and Frontflüge?

Regards,
Maksim

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

Hi Guys

Seems he was killed possibly in collision with a Jak-9 in Fw190 "White 8" Wnr.584364 1,5km East of Letschin/Kreis Lebus quadrant 43362.

Kind Regards

Johannes

P.S can't say I have seen a tank ace list, but any list would be totally dominated by Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

Maksim, I suspect a Frontflug is just a mission, such as transport, and even perhaps any mission where there was no combat, whereas a Feindflug is a combat mission.
For example, Harl-Heinz Stahnke had 600 missions by 4/1944, but ended the war with around 300 combat missions.

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

A Feindflug is a mission over enemy territory or into enemy airspace; Frontflüge were the number of 'flights' credited to an airman towards the award of a Frontflugspange (in gold, silver, bronze). As mentioned above, when a mission extended over 4 hours in enemy air space, the airman was awarded double points towards the Spange, increasing to 3 and 4 points for over 6 and over 8 hour flights. Single-engine fighters and dive-bombers usually only had the range for short flights so it is transport, bomber and reconnaissance airmen who tended to accumulate multiple scores.

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

PMoz99
Tim O.

OK, thank you very much.

Regards,
Maksim

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

Tim

I don't think a Feindflug had to be over enemy territory. I believe combat mission is good enough, ie a mission where some form of enemy contact was either made or intended to be made.

For example, in the west, most missions flown by the fighter units from ca mid-1941 were defensive missions, not to mention from 1943 when the never ending missions to protect Germany itself started.

Since you most certainly know this I just wanted to point out that territory can't have been the critical issue.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Is there a list of German Bomber Aces
 

Hi Stig

You are of course correct. The criteria had to change as German military activity became increasingly defensive. Thanks for the correction.

Best wishes
Tim O.