Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Hi guys

I note that R-5 biplanes were still being used as night bombers on the Far Northern Front as late as September 1942, and were used in operations against Petsamo and Kirkenes in some numbers.

My query is - which unit were these aircraft from and from which base did they operate for these sorties; and were any lost?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Hi Brian,
It's maybe 668 NBAP
Regards,
Kirill

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Thanks Kirill

Where can I find information on 668 NBAP, please?

I've googled without success.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Brian,
Good Samaritans help to look for:
"Ctrl+F" - "668" or "Р-5"
http://militera.lib.ru/h/inozemtsev_ig4/05.html
https://unotices.com/book.php?id=88172&page=14
info 668 NBAP \ ShaP from VVS 14A
http://allaces.ru/sssr/struct/p/shap668.php

The award documents of the commander and komissar of the regiment (major Архипенко Тимофей Николаевич and major Петранин Иван Максимович):
for the period 26.01.1942 - __.10.1942 668 NBAP made a 702 combat mission at night (1321 hours 43 minutes), 520 training missions blindly,
dropped 180 tons of bombs, expended 7200 rounds, leaflets 2.5 million.
Lost 3 aircraft (5 man crew) - shot down over target. 1 aircraft - non-combat loss.
In August - September 1942 bombed airfields Luostari, Girvas, Mayatalo, Kirkenes, Hebukten (the regimental commander personally made combat mission on 19 August, 8,10,28 September)
I found,
Losses in September 1942:
16/17.09.1942 - ?? Ковакин Павел Константинович (pilot) + St.Lt Балабанов Владимир Васильевич (navigator AE) - MIA
27/28.09.1942 - Lt. Башкиров Сергей Дмитриевич (pilot) - KIA (by shrapnel AA in the head - Navigator Gubin N.D. landed the aircraft on airfield)

Other losses:
07.02.1942 - Tihonov V.A. - lost orientation, the plane is broken area 150-200 km ost Lowozero lake, the pilot is frozen.
17.02.1942 - Yachmenev V.T. - KIA ? - area Sennoe lake, found 19.02.1942
23.02.1942 - Yefimov S.S. +Andrianov I.F. - POW 24/02/1942 Kestingi, Finnland

Best regards,
Kirill

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Many thanks once again, Kirill

Excellent information

Cheers
Brian

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

For second half of 1942 I found following attacks by R-5 from Chronicle (date/number of sorties/target location):

09.09. 10 Luostari
11.09. 10 Luostari
16.09. 16 Luostari and Høybukten
22.09. 4 Luostari
22.09. 5 storehouses near Titowka
23.09. 6 Luostari
23.09. 4 Høybukten
23.09. 4 Nautsi
27.09. 18 Høybukten
28.09. 8 Luostari
28.09. 6 Nautsi
28.09. 2 Høybukten
10.10. 2 Nautsi

Nothing about possible losses

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Some additional information of 668 BAP R-5 losses mentioned above:
- 7.2.1942 pilot Sn.Lt. Dormidov was rescued, navigator Capt. V.A. Tikhonov DOW 19.2.1942 - crash 150-200 km E Lake Lovozero, loss of orientation
- 16-17.2.1942 (night) Capt Vasiliy T. Yachmenyev and Sn.Lt Mikhail N. Rudzevich were found dead at crash site at Lake Sennoye - apparently shot down by German fighters
- 23-24.2.1942 (night) Sn.Lt. Sergei Semenovich Yefimov and Lt Ivan Filippovich Andrianov were captured by Finnish troops upon force-landing at Kuukasjärvi after loss of orientation on Alakurtti bombing mission. At least Yefimov (possibly also Andrianov) was handed over to German AOK on 26.2.1942 (after Finnish interrogation of the POWs).
-16-17.9.1942 P.K. Kovakin was apparently only "krasnoarmeyets" (private Soldier)
- 27-28.9.1942 Gubin was able to land at Shogui-2 AF base.

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Many, many thanks, guys

Your combined input has really helped me understand the operations of this little-known unit.

Did 668-NBAP have a fixed base, or did it operate from different airfields during 1942? For example, for operations against Luostari from where did the R-5s operate? Shonguy?

Also, on 27/28 September - is there an account of Gubin's flight to Shonguy after his pilot had been killed? Did he receive recognition? What was his first name?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Hi Brian,
Yes, 'ordena krasnovo znameni'. He was starshina Nikolai Denisovich Gubin. e-mail sent about the event.
Gabor

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

According to the Finnish questioning protocols of Andrianov and Yefimov 25.2.1942 the main base of 668 BAP was Afrikanda, from where the Alakurtti attack was performed.

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Hi,

very interesting thread,

you write this loss:

- 16-17.2.1942 (night) Capt Vasiliy T. Yachmenyev and Sn.Lt Mikhail N. Rudzevich were found dead at crash site at Lake Sennoye - apparently shot down by German fighters

who were the possible victors?

regards

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Hi guys

Further to Nikolai Gubin's heroics in saving his aircraft and landing it relatively safely, how would this have been accomplished from the rear seat of a tandem-seated aircraft with a dead pilot strapped into the cockpit? How would he have manipulated the controls, especially for landing?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Hi GMichalski

My records show that Uffz Erwin Zeuschel of 4./JG5 claimed the R-5.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Hi Brian,
Quote from comrade: "R-5 used double system: both pilot and observer could control plane.

Nikolay D. Gubin - test pilot 1-st rank, colonel"
http://testpilot.ru/base/2016/11/gubin-n-d/

Regards,
Kirill (and Sergey)

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Many thanks, Kirill

The answer is obvious when one knows the facts! But still a great feat!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Hello Brian
There is also the difficult and dangerous way, see: http://yle.fi/aihe/artikkeli/2009/10...-selviytyminen

In reality the plane was a Fokker C.X biplane, serial FK-109. The landing wasn't so good because there was not enough space for pulling the stick enough backwards for a proper flare out because Kahla, the observer, was sitting on the laps of the dead pilot.

Juha

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

hi,

thank you for the info,

regards

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Hi Juha

Thanks for that but unfortunately it didn't translate very well! The video helped me understand, though!

Do you have the names of the two airmen? And the date of the incident?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Hello Brian
yes, Finnish is very difficult language for non-speakers.
12 Aug 1942 FK-109 of the Lentolaivue 16 (Squadron) while flying a recce East of Lake Onega. The pilot, second lieutenant Pentti Mannermaa was killed by ground fire and the observer, lieutenant Paavo Kahla flew the plane back. He had already been awarded with a Mannerheim Cross, 2nd class, our Victoria Cross, earlier in 1942. The plane was damaged but was repaired.

HTH
Juha

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Many thanks, Juha

Did Kahla receive an additional award for his performance?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Hello Brian
for sure he got a congratulation telegram and a large bottle of cognac from the C-in-C of the Finnish Armed Forces, field marshal Mannerheim. According to the book on the FiAF's knights of the Mannerheim Cross he was awarded with 2. luokan Vapaudenristi (Cross of Freedom 2nd class) on 25 Nov 1942 even if the official web-page of the Mannerheim cross recipients doesn't mention that award/medal in his list of awards/medals. The web-page of the Central Archives of the Helsinki University also mentioned that Kahla got a 2. luokan Vapaudenristi in 1942.

Juha

Re: Yet another for our Russian experts, please!
 

Belated thanks, Juha

Most useful

Cheers
Brian