Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

Hello,

in 1943 many Luftwaffe Ju 52s were left behind in North Africa, ca. 12 of which were flown to South Africa and operated there by the SAAF with serials in the range 20 to 39. 'War Prizes' by Phil Butler has very sketchy information about these aircraft (Werknummern, Stammkennzeichen, etc. are missing). Does anybody know more?

Please note: this question is NOT about the civil SAA aircraft which were impressed into the SAAF.

Thanks
Gerhard

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

Hello,
OK so the SAA a/c were serial numbers -660 to 670 .
Ex Luftwaffe a/c numbered "26" was W/O nearvBulawayo on 16 - 10 - 1943.
Ref is " 85 Years of SAAF".
Or you could try this site ?

http://www.geocities.ws/hjunkers/ju_ju52_p1.htm

Alex

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

Alex, that website - on the scale of serious Luftwaffe research it should be on the shelf next to the dustbin - and fall off into it. Seriously. Some German researches will likely turn over in their graves.
Gerhard is asking on these SAAF (captured ex-Luftwaffe in North-Africa):

.... Ju 52/3m - SAAF 26 "Tobruk" - Crashed at Sauerdale, South Rodesia 15.10.1943
.... Ju 52/3m - SAAF 27 "Gepp Geschwind" - Arrived in South Africa 25.04.1943
.... Ju 52/3m - SAAF 29 "Sidi Haneish" - Almaza enr South Africa 20.05.1943 - South African War Museum - Scrapped 1954
.... Ju 52/3m - SAAF 30 "Kelibia" - Left Almaza 13.07.1943 for South-Africa.
.... Ju 52/3m - SAAF 31 "Bizerta" - Left Almaza 23.07.1943 for South-Africa.
.... Ju 52/3m - SAAF 32 "Sidi Daoud" - Left Almaza 26.08.1943 for South-Africa.
.... Ju 52/3m - SAAF 33 "Mentzel Termini" Left Almaza 30.08.1943 for South-Africa.
.... Ju 52/3m - SAAF 34 "Cap Bon" - Left Almaza 27.08.1943 for South-Africa.
.... Ju 52/3m - SAAF 35 "Tripoli Trix" - Arrived in South Africa 08.10.1943
.... Ju 52/3m - SAAF 36 "El Haouiena" - Left Almaza 21.07.1943 for South Africa.
.... Ju 52/3m - SAAF 37 "Algiers" - Left Almaza 09.01.1944 for South-Africa.
.... Ju 52/3m CQ+HH Luftwaffe - SAAF 38 "La Sebala" - Sold as scrap 26.10.1946

(Butler "Warprizes")

this above is from long time ago and has not been verified


-Ed

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

Hi Ed - This info is given in Phil Butler's War Prizes, so most Lw researchers know that his research is generally sound.
The only thing that I can add is the W/Nr for this is 5989. I have a note saying that this was captured late 1944 at Foggia by the RAF. But another note saying at was 05.45 at Klegenfurt a/f. Miles apart in time and place!!
Can anybody confirm this or add any new details as the date and other possible locations?

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

Hi Ed - Sorry I should have note this info was for the Ju52/3m with the Stkz - CQ+HH

Cheers

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

Hi Tom

I looked up the Klagenfurt airfield survey report yesterday and Ju 52 5989 was found there 5/45 but its stkz was CQ+HA, so the one found in Africa was CQ+HH c/n not known, unless Peter Achs knows more

Regards

Tony

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

Tom. Agree, its generally good. Apologies, references were with text (in "unknown machines") but did not copy. Added in plain text now.
- Unless the plane was not flyable or not mentioned. I have found (and partly more) Ju 88s (damaged) were shipped to the USA, two are traced by code and W.Nr.s and some dates/fates traced.
One of them was sent over quite a long period before official US entry in the war.

Tony, Achs might not stir in his grave. Sadly he flipped in private mail
and likely has ... left the building.

-Ed

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

Hi

Peter Achs has been very helpful in the past but I respect the fact that sometimes he wants to keep his data private

Tony

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

It is not about data, but claims made and remarks. Anyone is full in right for his or hers data to himself, finders keepers I guess.

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

Many thanks to all who responded.

Unfortunately, no WNrs seem to be known (except 5989).

Gerhard

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

CQ+HA ist reported as a He 111.

A crudely written 'H' may be read as 'A' and vice versa.

Any further idea?

Gerhard

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

Nope, Ju 52/3m CQ+HH is illustated (possibly same as here ) and besides CQ+HA was in Klagenfurt 1945

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showt...erman-Aircraft

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

Just for confirmation:

Both CQ+HA and CQ+HH were Ju 52s?
CQ+HA was in Klagenfurt 1945 and CQ+HH in Italy sometime in 1944?

Gerhard

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

The operating Unit Flugber./Luftflotte4: (Fl.Komp.LN.Rgt.4) used the Stkz CQ+H. series as if it was a Vkz. Changing and re-using as and when. That is why there are many repeats for this CQ+H. series especially with transport types.

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

Yes, right. Luftwaffe ww2 codes had "minefields" for those "not knowing all".

CQ+HH (H 1. Staffel, H individual for plane), CQ+HA (H 1. staffeln, A individual for plane)

Just like VB+KM was (one) Ju 88 A-5 F, (one) Ju 88 D-2 and (one) Ju 88 D-1 (total three known) with 2./Aufklärungsgruppe Ob.d.L. (othervise code T5+MK in normal system).
Here VB+ was "Unit code" K was 2. Staffeln and "M" individual aircraft (letter Red for 2. Staffeln colour).

I hope Mr. Gerhard now understands.

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

The existence of minefields is well known, the existence of each and every minefield unfortunately not.

If there were only those "knowing all" we wouldn't need such a forum.

Gerhard

Re: Luftwaffe Ju 52 captured in Africa and flown to South Africa
 

The late Dave Becker ( a respected South African aviation historian ) wrote an article about the ex Luftwaffe Ju 52/3m's that were flown to South Africa.
The article appeared in the South African aviation magazine SAFlyer quite a few years ago ( around 2011 but I am not certain of the year ).
The article contains pictures of CQ+HH , "La Sebala" , SAAF 26 (at the site of its forced landing) and SAAF 29.
The list of the aircraft in the article is virtually the same as the one of Phil Butler. The only difference is that Becker lists "La Sebala" as a separate aircraft that was used in North Africa but possibly not delivered to SA.