PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

Good morning Gentlemen,

on 10May1945 VPB-13 destroyed a Mavis at 32-38N 128-50E.
On 24May1945 VPB-13 destroyed a Jake at 32-35N 126-00E.
I found these coordinates in the Chinese Sea.

Are these PTO or CBI kills ?

Michael

Re: PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

At this time, VPB-13 was based on Kerama Retto, Ryukyu Islands south of Okinawa. Those would be PTO kills.

Re: PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

I don't think that your question is relevant as these were Navy claims, while "PTO" and "CBI" are US Army theatre designations. The shootdowns occurred north of 20 degrees, which was the northern boundary of the Southwest Pacific Area, and so they took place in the Central Pacific Area of Admiral Nimitz's Pacific Ocean Areas command.

Re: PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

Hello RSwank & twocee,

is it justified to say that shootdowns of Japanese planes by US Navy planes are always PTO kills and never CBI kills ?

Michael

Re: PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

I would say yes. Only use CBI for US Army and other land-based Air Force kills.

Re: PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

Hello George,

thanks for that helpful assessment,

Michael

Re: PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

As twocee says, the theater vs Japan was divided in more than CBI and PTO, but into the following zones:
AL (Alaska/Aleutians): I have 33,5 claims for USAAF (from June 42 to May 43)
CBI (China/Burma/India): I have 1118,58 claims for USAAF
CP (Central Pacific: Pearl Harbor raid, Gilbert/Marshall/Mariana/Bonin Islands and raid on Japan from Iwo Jima): 430,5 USAAF claims
SWP (Southwest Pacific, actually including Philippines in 1941-42 and then late in war scoring kills from Singapore to Japan via Korea (units of SWP commands finishing the war in Okinawa): 3141,5 USAAF claims

No USN or USMC unit was based in CBI during the war, so no USN/USMC claim could be lined to CBI.

But USN/USMC kills were scored in the three other areas (AL, CP and SWP).

To take your example, USAAF claims scored by Okinawa-based units seem to be recorded under SWP, so both VP-13 claims in May 1945 should be SWP... but all former 5 VP-13 kills in 1944 should be CP.

But applying USAAF designations is probably just wrong. I tried to find USN claim statistics by theater, but while you can find detailled ones by type and by "type of base" (carrier or land), I don't find anything for location.

Re: PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

Can I just complicate things further by pointing out that VPB13 was never based in the Southwest Pacific Area and that all US Army air operations from Okinawa took place in the Central Pacific area. It would therefore appear necessary to deal separately with Army and Navy claims.

Re: PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

The official list of USAAF WWII claims as an "area" column and kills scored by 35th FG after their move to Okinawa in June 1945 are assigned to SWP.

Re: PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

Good evening Laurent,

I have 1272 American CBI kills with a breakdown of the plane types that scored them. None of them were scored by USN/USMC plane types.

Cheers,

Michael

Re: PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

Were all SB2U kills scored against the Japanese ?:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=61752

Re: PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

VMSB-241 was the only US squadron which flew SB2U’s in actual combat. The squadron’s war diary for the period 1 June thru 30 June 1942 notes for 4 June 1942: “Six enemy fighters were shot down by our rear gunners and four more possible shot-downs are claimed.” (page 5) The report does not mention names.

The VMSB-241 report for the Battle of Midway notes

->In describing the SBD attack led Major Henderson: “During this time, four (4) enemy fighters were observed to go down in flames, shot by the rear gunners and it is believed that two more were probably shot down.”
->In describing the SB2U attack led by Major Norris: “Two (2) enemy fighters were shot down in this action and two (2) more believed to have been shot down.”

There is no mention of any particular individual as shooting down a Japanese fighter from either an SBD or and SB2U. Interesting that the total claims for shoot down come to six when SBD and SB2U claims are combined and similarly the probable shot downs total four. Thus coming to the six and four as described in the squadron war diary.

The MAG-22 report of the Midway action with regard to shoot-downs credited to VMSB-241 is a little different: “VMSB rear gunners report six (6) enemy 00 1 Sento K1 Fighters shot down with three (3) others badly damaged.” Have to smile at the early war creative nomenclature for the A6M2. No mention of exactly who claimed to have shot down an enemy fighter.

For what is is worth, the gunner for 2LT Sumner Whitten mentioned in the linked posting was SGT Frank Zelnis, USMC.

Re: PB2Y Coronados of VPB-13 in May 1945
 

Good morning Leonard,

thanks for your post which brings me one step further.
Check out the story of Norris:
https://missingmarines.com/benjamin-w-norris/
This document lists the crews of his section:
http://www.midway42.org/Midway_AAR/vmsb-241.pdf

Cheers,

Michael