Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Dear researchers,

Perhaps another example of friendly fire:

On 28th march 1944 Mosquito LR276 SM-S of 305 Squadron was lost during a daylight attack on V-1 weapon site on position Z.3066 near Freval. The Mosquito ditched in The Channel after presumably being hit by Flak.

However, in the Operations Record Book no.2 Group 1944 (reference AIR37/23) a small handwriten note "shot down by Mustangs" is made near the entry of this loss.

Can anybody shed a light on this?

Thanks in advance,
Hans Nauta

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Hi Hans:

The note may relate to NS856, aircraft T of 107 Sqn, lost to Mustangs on 28 March 1944 (same date). F/O J.A. Glen , W/O T. Davidson, both killed. Apparently attacked by P-51 near Vernouillet airfield, according to Fighter Command War Diaries, Volume 4. May have been Lt Charles Anderson of the 335th FS of the 4th FG (according to posts on this board).

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Hi again Mark,

Well, this explains a lot. I presume the clerk may have attributed the info to the wrong Mosquito loss in the ORB. Even primary sources contain errors...

Thanks agian for your help!

Hans Nauta

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

I have checked it with my Mosquito friend. HX276 SM-S is listed as failing to return with no specific details, the crew being drowned. The sortie was between 1540 and 1710.

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Dear Franek,

Thanks for the added details. For your records: the body of pilot F/Lt Bolislaw Sochacki, P.2214, washed ashore on 14th June 1944 in the vicinity of beach pole 35.6 near the coastal village of Bergen aan Zee, The Netherlands, and was buried on 18th June 1944 at Bergen cemetery.

Regards,
Hans Nauta

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Franek:

Shouldn't that be LR276?

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Hi Mark

Whilst you're around - have you anything on Mosquito MM920 of 68 Sqn shot down by Beaufighter V8742 from same squadron on 29/5/44?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Brian

How much damage was made to MM920? According to Halley it went on to join 54 OTU and was SOC 10.7.1945 after use with 1689 Flt.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

I'm confused now - as far as I know, MM920 isn't a Mosquito serial number. The 68 Sqn. Mossie, according to my info, was MM503 - Pilot F/Lt C.L. Harris baled out OK, Sgt Eric Blood Hopkinson found dead.

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Afaik the last MM series was MM822: NF30 488/51OTU/54OTU SOC 11.3.48

from http://www.dehavilland.ukf.net/_DH98%20prodn%20list.txt

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Hi guys

It looks as though I am causing confusion (again!)

Apparently a Mosquito flown by F/O DB Wills of 68 Squadron (noted as MM920 but obviously incorrect) was shot down by a Beaufighter from the same Squadron (name of pilot known to me) also on 29/5/44. I am unaware at this stage if the Mosquito crash-landed, but assume so as the navigator died from his wounds/injuries some ten days later. He was F/O CA Ledeboar. I am still investigating this and will advise if further information comes to light.

Incidentally, can anyone explain why 68 Squadron's ORB is so incomplete, particulary for 1944? It is as though certain incidents, many normal routine sorties, were not written-up.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Hi All

Sorry if I added to the confusion. No 68Sq was about to re-equip with Mosquitoes during July 1944, but the unit had some Beaufighters left.
When Brian stated MM920 I didn't check which TYPE it was, just that it was or had been operational with No 68 Sq. MM920 was of course a Beaufighter VIF:o

However the Mossie MM503 never served with this unit. When shot down by a Beau from 68Sq it was used by No 604Sq.

Brian, can you confirm that this pilot from No 68Sq, who shot down MM503, ALSO shot down another fighter from his own unit the same night? Or did this unit manage to have TWO pilots shooting down TWO of their own aeroplanes during the same night?? The latter sounds pretty fantastic (read awful!).... Maybe somewhere there is a mixing of dates or something??

Cheers
Stig

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Here we go!

OK, the confusion partly stems from my assumption that MM920 was a Mosquito (black mark!). Now that we have established it was a Beaufighter, the 'fact' remains that MM920 (crew Flt Lt DB Wills/Flg Off GA Ledeboer) was shot down by Beaufighter V8742 (Flg Off CA Hansen) on 29/5/44 according to my records. Ledeboer was critically injured and died on 9/6/44 (I am hoping that AHB will confirm this since 68 Squadron's ORB is incomplete/inaccurate).

On 28/5/44 (not sure if same night, ie 28-29/5/44) Flt Lt Albert Holt DSO of 68 Squadron shot down Mosquito of 604 Squadron

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Here we go!

OK, the confusion partly stems from my assumption that MM920 was a Mosquito (black mark!). Now that we have established it was a Beaufighter, the 'fact' remains that MM920 (crew Flt Lt DB Wills/Flg Off GA Ledeboer) was shot down by Beaufighter V8742 (Flg Off CA Hansen) on 29/5/44 according to my records. Ledeboer was critically injured and died on 9/6/44 (I am hoping that AHB will confirm this since 68 Squadron's ORB is incomplete/inaccurate).

On 29/5/44 (same night?) at 0400 hours, Flt Lt Albert Harvey DSO of 68 Squadron in Beaufighter shot down Mosquito of 604 Squadron. I have a copy of Harvey's CR.

I have a further set of queries re 157 Squadron Mosquitos: on 29/9/44 MM646 FTR from mission following 0100 take off from Swannington. Was it the victim of a US P-61, although the records of 422ndNFS and 425thNFS don't show any combats.

Daytime 29/9/44: Two Mosquitos searching for signs of missing crew. MM643 shot down by 'Me410' (any idea of Lw unit/claimant?), which was then attacked by second Mosquito and claimed probably destroyed (any Lw loss?)

Night 29-30/9/44: MM656 reported visual on another Mosquito which attacked and shot down MM656. Crew lost .Any ideas?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Brian

Must have been a horrible morning for the 68th!!
I cannot add anything you already know, except perhaps that Jim Halley in the RAF MA100 - MZ999 states that MM643 was shot down by a Bf 109 while Norman Franks states as you do it was by a Me 410. Since it surely happened during the day, a Me 410 sounds a bit strange doesn't it?

IF MM920 IS the right Beau, it survived it's shoot down as stated in my first e-mail.

The loss of MM656 sounds strange. Again according to Halley, this was a Mossie sold to Sweden....:confused:
Cheers
Stig

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Hi:

John Foreman's Fighter Command War Diaries Volume 5 says the Me 410 responsible responsible for the destruction of MM643 of 157 Sqn. was, based on available evidence, from SeeNotGr. 80, flown by Oberleutnant Langer. Time was around 11 a.m. according to Chorley.

I would not assume this aircraft was the one shot down by another 157 Sqn. Mosquito - Foreman gives this claim for an Me 410 by F/L Vincent as a night victory, though the location is close, off Great Yarmouth, according to Martin Bowman (who also says it was a night action).

The 157 Squadron aircraft lost the previous evening crashed as you know near Geesburg - a good long way from the North Sea. Most of what little I know about P-61s puts them over Belgium at around this period - see Erich's posts elsewhere.

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Hi Mark/Stig

According to the notes I have extracted from 157's ORB, MM643 was shot down by a Me410 at about 1145 (and would seem to be Langer's victim), this same aircraft then being attacked and claimed probably destroyed by Vincent. Therefore, not a night incident! Unless Foreman and Bowman have seen Vincent's CR that may state otherwise, then they are incorrect. I will see if I can locate the CR when I next visit PRO, just to settle this once and for all.

At least we've made some progress on this one as well.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Thanks for that Brian - perhaps the source Foreman used for the info on Langer was a Luftwaffe loss report.

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Hi Mark

Yes, I am hoping to confirm that (assuming he was lost on this date!). Will let you know what transpires.

Cheers
Brian

PS: I have just been looking at Tony Woods' Lw claims lists: Oblt Langer did claim on 29/9/44, but identified his victim as a Halifax II shot down from height of 50 metres east of Kattagat at 1205. He did survive as he made further claims, but not known if his aircraft was damaged in combat on 29/9/44.

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Brian,

F/Lt P W Vincent (anyone have his full name) + FO Frank Money claimed a probable Me-410 at 1107 hours on Sept 29, 1944, 12 m ESE of Yarmouth, in Mosquito XIX TA391 N. Info from CR: Air 50/66-118.

Frank.

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Thanks Frank - sorry, I don't have Vincent's full name.

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Hi Frank

I thought you had retired to the South Seas! Good to hear from you.

Thanks for the details re Vincent, at least we can confirm it was a daytime action. I assume Foreman used Bowman's information for them to both be wrong!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Hello all,

I am interested in another friendly fire incident involving one of 68 Sqn Beaufighters. On June 27, 1944 Beaufighter VIF, KV974 WM-R with F/Lt J. Capka, DFM and F/Lt G.T. Williams, DFM was shot down at 15:30 by the gunners of US Liberator when closing to mock attack during non operational flight. F/Lt Williams baled out unhurt, but the pilot with head injury (blinded in left eye) was trapped by the blocked emergency exit and had to crash land the burning aircraft near Layer Breton, Colchester, Suffolk suffering severe burns.

Is the identity of US Liberator disclosed ?

Thanks in advance.

David Sumerauer

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Hi David

No, I haven't been able to identify the unit or crew as yet. Hopefully, something will come from this posting.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Hello,

The box score in Escort To Berlin for 28 March 1944 has one destroyed, after Lt. Anderson strafed a parked aircraft at Dreux/Vernavillet. No other claims for that date. Pages 46 and 139 explain the particulars.

Re: Mosquito shot down by Mustangs, 28th March 1944
 

Mosquito under attack starts at 1:03. There is guncam footage on video identifying the aircraft as a "JU88". The attacker was with 4th FG. There is another clip posted on YouTube which identifies the pilot and the date as March 28, 1944, but am unable to relocate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE3PceU-UqA