B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Suzy Q was a B-17E 412489 with dorsal turret immediately behind the cockpit. Can anyone explain this photo of her without the turret?
Is the photo taken at a maintenance station? Censored?
Also, it appears the ball turret is also absent, but the inconsiderate bystanders are blocking so much of the shot it's hard for me to say ........
Thanks
Peter

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

This article may explain it.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/16820645/suzyq/

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Thank you Roland. Post-War photo, then. I think there is a typo in the story. Towards the end of the article it says she started the trip home late in 1942. So her service life was less than a year and the article says she exceeded the normal active life span by many months. So what was the expected active life span? 6 months seems very short to me.
Peter

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

The plane's combat history was only in 1942. It returned to the US in October 1942 and was supposedly doing a war bond tour by November of 1942. Actually, such planes usually got a complete overhaul and the crews got a leave of at least 30-60 days before starting these tours. I can find newspaper articles starting in early 1943 of the plane at various stops around the country but none in 1942.

Here is a history:

https://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircra...7/41-2489.html

And another version here:
https://b17flyingfortress.de/en/b17/41-2489-suzy-q/

I think the plane made it to San Bernardino earlier than the "histories" indicate.

Note the newspaper article was written in Oct 44 and the plane was already then at San Bernardino and was stripped of her turrets. It was then being used for training mechanics.

I think the photo you have of the plane without the turrets was taken anytime from Oct 1944 on, (not necessarily post war).

As a side-note, the wife of the pilot wrote a book in 1943 about the plane and crew. "The Suzy-Q", by Prisicilla Hardison.

Here are a couple of reviews:
https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-r...on/the-suzy-q/

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11392540-the-suzy-q

The book can be found on the web, e.g. Amazon, abebooks, etc.

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Thanks Roland.
Is there anywhere I can find out how many combat missions she flew? I've read many stories about her, including a long one in LIFE magazine, but none mention this.
Thanks again
Peter

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Peter, here is an article from September 1943. (I missed it first time around because they have the name spelled as Susy-Q not Suzy-Q). A couple of points. The article mentions more than 50 missions flown. The plane is also getting a complete overhaul so perhaps a "complete" one was not done in the fall of 42 Also, looking at the photo is the top turret already off?.


https://www.newspapers.com/clip/1684...l_field_ogden/

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Good evening Peter,

very interesting issue.
I wish you a good success with this thread.

Michael

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Peter, another article with a photo, from July, 1943. It appears the plane may have been at Hill Field for several months.

Here is part 1 of the article. Note the photo seems to show both turrets already removed.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/1685...y_1943_part_1/

part 2 of the article.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/1685...l_fieldpart_2/

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Thanks again for the links Roland.
I agree both turrets are already gone in July 1943.
A pity none of the articles nor any of the other meagre references I have give a mission count. The Hill Top Times article says she was in almost daily combat action for nine months, so "more than 50" combat missions might be a very conservative guess.
Cheers
Peter

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Peter,

Here is a link to a direct pdf download of articles originally published in 1943 in Skyways magazine. It says the plane flew 55 missions. (See page 10).

http://www.legendsintheirowntime.com...4303_SuzyQ.pdf

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Thanks for the new link, Roland. I had already found that story in a plain text format, but missed the mission count! Your post made me have another look at it .....
Cheers
Peter

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

I did find a newspaper article from October, 1985, published in "The Hill Top Times" which was the base newspaper of Hill AFB. The story was written by Dr Roger D Launius of the base History Office. It relates that Suzy-Q arrived at the base on 19 July, 1943 and left 20 September, 1943. There were two shifts of 32 men each (a day and a night shift) working on the plane and that they basically rebuilt it. There were 70 pages of repair orders with about 20 items listed on each page. An included photo shows the plane in a hanger with lots of men working on it.

Thinking a little about what was happening in the summer and fall of 1943, the Memphis Belle had returned in June and had done (or was doing) an extensive bond tour. The media focus had moved on. The AAF now had an obsolete but "mechanically good" B-17E that probably nobody knew what to do with. It ended up as a grounded training plane for mechanics.

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Hadn't seen that one, but I have enough info now. The articles are very interesting reading.
Thanks for all your invaluable help.
Peter

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Hello Peter & Co,

is it known if Hardison was the pilot for all 55 missions ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

The Life Magazine article dated Jan 1943 states he was the pilot for 12 months, so I'd say yes. Some of the other crew members flew missions in other a/c while Suzy Q was "resting" in Australia providing bombardier and navigator practice, but my interpretation is that Hardison stayed with her.
Cheers
Peter

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Good evening Peter,

thus, if heavy bomber pilots had been credited with the kills of their gunner, Mr. Hardison would the the top B-17 ace, wouldn't he ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

I don't know about other scores. 26 is pretty good, though.

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Hello Peter,

here another Suzy-Q photo:
http://www.australianflying.com.au/n...e-yanks-part-2

Michael

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Hello there Gentlemen,

intriguingly, if heavy bomber pilots had been credited with the kills of their gunners, Hardison would have been the first American to equal Rickenbacker's WW1 score, wouldn't he ?
Did he fly all his combat missions in "Suzy-Q" ?

Michael

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

He did not fly all his missions in Suzy-Q and Suzy-Q was flown by at least one other pilot (probably more). (A lot of your questions could probably be answered in Mrs. Hardison's book about the Suzy-Q. It can be found used on Amazon.)

This link is to page 149 in the book "Fortress Against the Sun", which describes a mission flown 1 March, 1942. Lt Beran is flying Suzy-Q and Hardison is flying a different B-17E.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Sl...Suzy-Q&f=false

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Roland, I read pages 147-151, no mention of 41-2489 and the dates start at 8 March ..... Are you sure you got the page number right?
The amazon preview doesn't allow me to go back further.
Peter

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Hmmm.. Odd. When I click on the Google link I gave it goes right to page 149. The first paragraph starts out "At 12:20 on March 1, 1942 Japanese troops finally set foot on Java. The Eastern Invasion Force landed on the north shore about 100 miles west of Soerabaja, while the Western Invasion Force landed on the northwest coast near Batavia." The rest of the paragraph lists how the BGs responded. It mentions that Hardison's bombardier became violently ill just before take-off and Hardison was delayed for an hour.

The second paragraph starts:

"Lt Beran, B-17E (41-2489, Suzy-Q), arrived first, at 2:30, and aided by a full moon, dropped a train of bombs from 7000 feet atop two transports scoring a direct hit on one and possibly the other."

The book goes on to describe the attack by other planes and the Japanese response. Then at about 5:00 am, after the first attacks were concluded, Hardison arrived. The antiaircraft guns were silent, the searchlights were off and the moon had clouded over. Haridson flew up and down the coast, trying to located some targets. Finally, around 6:00, Hardison spotted a transport and attacks.

Pretty clear from the write-up that Lt Beran was flying Suzy-Q and that Hardison was flying a combat mission in a different (un-named) plane.


Based on your experience it would appear the somehow the Google book links are not "fixed" but may pick and choose what to show based on what? ...... the user's location? or prior searches? Has anyone else run into this before?

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

The link didn't work at all for me - just took me to what looks to be the front page of the ad for the book. That's why I ended up at the amazon preview .....
Peter

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Peter, maybe the location of the user makes a difference. Are you in the US or elsewhere? I also wonder if Amazon and Google are linking to different editions of the book?

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

I don't know, Roland. I am in Australia. I can't get a preview through Google books, only Amazon, edition is from Combined Publishing, Pennsylvania, Copyright 2001, ISBN 1-58097-049-4. I guess it's just another example of how they divide up the world and treat the divisions differently.
Peter

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Peter, the Google link shows the same ISBN number, but the publisher is "Da Capo Press, a member of the Perseus Books Group". Same copyright date. It appears to possibly? be a different version of the book. That might explain the page number differences.

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Good morning Peter & RSwank,

is there any common link between the B-17 named SUZY-Q and the Dale Hawkins song ? I mean is Suzy Q some popular character in the English-speaking world ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb9vcqam_tQ

Michael

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

If anything it would be an American thing.
Anyone from the USA have any ideas?
Peter

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Suzie Q is the name of a dance step in the Big Apple, Lindy Hop, and other dances. In line dances this step is also known as Heel Twist or Grind Walk. The step is also used in jazz dance, and in Salsa shines.

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Good afternoon kaki3152,

thanks for the Suzy-Q info.
Felix Hardison died at the age of 61. Is his cause of death specified ?

Michael

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Good evening Gentlemen,

is it justified to say that the collective total of the gunners who belonged to Felix Hardison's crew was 26 ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Several questions that are asked in previous posts on this thread are answered in the following links.

Why the name Suzy-Q for the plane….. (see obit of priscilla).


Find A Grave links for Felix and Priscilla.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...moses-hardison

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...ardison-taylor

Attached is an obit for Felix (appears he may have died of cancer).

Life Magazine article on Suzy-Q starting on page 82. There are several good photos in the Life Magazine article from 1943. (Apparently Suzy-Q was the first B-17 to fly around the world, (but it took a little time….).

https://books.google.com/books?id=mE...epage&q&f=true

Some more info here:
https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/for...56-b17-suzy-q/

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Good evening dear RSwank,

interesting findings. Thanks for sharing.
Can you tell me why you think he died of cancer ?

Cheers from Switzerland,

Michael

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

At the end of the obit is the line, "Those who desire may send memorial contributions to the American Cancer Society." So perhaps he died of cancer and the family wanted to support the Cancer Society.

Re: B-17E Suzy Q photo issue
 

Good evening RSwank,

good conclusion.
It is an American habit to donate to the research against those diseases that have killed a relative.
I'm a pathologist and have to diagnose cancer every day. Therefore it would be intriguing to learn which kind of cancer Hardison died of.

I wish you a good start into a pleasant new week,

Michael