Mustang Pilot Information
 

Hi everybody,

I am looking for information concerning the 5 pilots of this list, all killed on 19 August 1942 during Operation Jubilee of Dieppe.

circumstances of the crash, photos or documents

Thank you very much for your help.
Alexis

1271760 - Sgt Geoffrey Denis Maynard Cliff - 26 Sq - Mustang AG584 - Runnymede Memorial
44183 - F/L Graham Newstead Dawson - 26 Sq - Mustang AG418 - Runnymede Memorial
43959 - F/L Donald Newton Kennedy - 26 Sq - Mustang AG536 - Dieppe Canadian War Cemetery
45596 - F/L Philip Arthur Leo Gompertz - 239Sq - Mustang AM134 - Runnymede Memorial
J/8347 - P/O David Garrett Burlingam - 400 Sq – Mustang AM151 - Coxyde Military Cemetery

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Hello,
Quick answer would be from Norman R. Franks vol 2 of Fighter Command Losses of the 2nd World War .
Or this one
The Greatest Air Battle Dieppe, 19th August 1942.
Norman R. Franks.
London:Grub Street,1992 (50th anniversary ed.).

All seem to have been on Reconnaisance Missions.

Alex

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

The only claims for Mustangs that day were by Hptm Helmut-Felix Bolze of II./JG 2 at 0655 and 0702 hrs, Oblt Fülbert Zink of 2./JG 26 at 1610 hrs and Ofw Kurt Kruska of 6./JG 26 at 0845 hrs. It is possible that one of the many Spitfires claimed could have been misidentified and I do not have details of any Flak claims

Thank you Alex Smart, I already have this live The Greatest Air Battle Dieppe, 19th August 1942.

but I'm looking for more specific details

place of crashes, why Runnymede Memorial, why Burlingam is buried in Coxide in Belgium, etc....

Thanks Chris Goss, I'll keep that aside.

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

The recce missions flown by Army Co-operation Command Mustangs over Dieppe were flown by pairs of aircraft or single aircraft. Cliff and Kennedy were a pair and both pilots were lost there are no contemporary reports. Dawson, Gompertz and Burlingham were all flying solo missions and once again there are no contemporary reports. From the available documents it is only possible to obtain very broad descriptions of the areas in which the pilots were intended to fly. For example Gompertz was tasked to "...cover an area near Dieppe..."

It may be that these losses were officially investigated after the War but as far as I know any reports are not available publicly.

Steve

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Thank you very much SteveB, it's clear and neat

I found this picture of Gompertz.

good day

Alex

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers...8-gompertz.jpg

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

I was trying to determine the same thing for Kennedy.

I never got any reply from the local French research group. Its absa39-45 or something like that.

http://www.ww2irishaviation.com/ah920.htm

I guess that in the chaos in the days after the landings remains were found at crashed aircraft and interred in what became the CWGC cemetery. The CWGC site for Kennedy I don't think shows any grave concentration report. So where ever he was found.. he seems to have been buried once with no subsequent re burial... but I'm just guessing.

He may have been found by French police or German military units. The country side must have been dotted with wrecks.

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

I did get this from the RAF Air Historical Branch. No more detail though.


It was later reported that information received by the French local authorities that the body of Flt Lt Kennedy was recovered near Dieppe and buried at Les Vertus Cemetery near Dieppe. The cemetery has now changed its name to the Hauton-Sur Mer Canadian Cemetery, Dieppe and he is buried in Row D, Grave 3. Sgt Cliff is still reported as missing and is commemorated on the Air Forces Memorial at Runnymede. The memorial is situated on a spur off Coopers Hill overlooking the River Thames and commemorates those airmen who lost their lives in North West Europe and the adjacent seas and has no known grave. Sgt Cliff’s name is inscribed on Panel 80.

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Runnymede memorial is used to record bodies that were never recovered. They might be buried as unknowns, bodies washed up missing any ID or means of identufication. Runnymede indicates no official recovery of remains.. The person was missing.

The pilot buried in Belgium probably came down in the water and his remains were carried by the sea currents to the Belgium coast. There are many examples of remains travelling great distances before washing up.

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Thank you for your answer Dennis (I sent you an email for the same request on February 11)

I'm doing research because I found debris from a Mustang that fell on the morning of August 19,1942.

the pilot crashed into the telegraph poles after shelling a German soldier column, died instantly and was ejected from the aircraft, and remained on the bank for several days (local witnesses)

I think it's Kennedy, but to be really sure.

crash in Envermeu - 15 km from Dieppe

Alexis

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Did you email me or send a PM here? Very interesting.

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

I have just found the Flak claims buried in a German document-8 Spitfires, 2 Hurricanes, 1 Blenheim, 2 Bostons. A bit further on it says Flak claims for the day were 20. No mentions of Mustangs

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

It’s a few years since I was studying the Dieppe operations and my memory is not so good. I have been back and checked through my material.

The role of the Mustang squadrons was to maintain reconnaissance of the inland approaches to Dieppe inside the area bounded by a line Abbeville - Amiens - Beauvais - Rouen - Le Havre. In the British records I have found very little detail about the areas where 26 Sqn flew their missions and I have found no detail for the 26 Sqn missions that failed to return.

There is more detail for 239 Sqn who flew eight tasks: three missions to the West of Dieppe and five to the East of Dieppe. One mission is recorded as: Le Treport - Envernay - Neuechatel and two missions are recorded Le Treport - Envernay - Blangy. “Neuechatel” is clearly a mistake for Neufchatel. One pilot who returned from a mission recorded that he was intercepted by Fw190s over Envermeu. I cannot find a place called “Envernay” in the area so perhaps this is a mistake for Envermeu. When Gompertz flew his solo mission at 1100 hours his planned route is recorded as Le Treport - Envernay - Blangy.

There is very little detail for each task flown by 400 Sqn. I was mistaken in stating that Burlingam was flying a solo mission but he was flying on his first operation over France. He was flying in a pair and it is recorded that he was last seen near St Aubin.

Thank you for posting the photo of Gompertz. You may have noticed that he seems to be wearing an Army uniform. A lot of the pilots in the Army Co-operation squadrons had transferred from the Army to the RAF.

Steve

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

thank you very much for the clarifications

Neuechatel is Neuchatel-en-bray
Envernay is I think Envermeu (I live in Envermeu)

I've already seen this mistake in Norman R. Franks' book.

another source tells me that Kennedy was a victim of Hptm Herbert-Felix Bolz.

"26 Sqn Mustang AG536 MIA. F/L Donald Newton Kennedy b. Haut-s-Mer ca. 0600 by Hptm Herbert-Felix Bolz II/JG2 FW190".

some parts recovered at the crash site

https://zupimages.net/up/18/07/i8cq.jpg

https://zupimages.net/up/18/07/wzp3.jpg

https://zupimages.net/up/18/07/1akh.jpg

https://zupimages.net/up/18/07/qtj7.jpg

https://zupimages.net/up/18/07/ui87.jpg

Thank you all, I'll keep you posted on my research.

Alexis

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Thanks for the info Alexis.

I did email ANSA39-45 group but they never replied, http://ansa39-45.fr/news.htm

perhaps some one else might have better luck than me.

Perhaps if the records of the town(s) or local police could be investigated in an archive, they might hold an answer.

I looked at the Service file of the only RCAF member buried in Dieppe cemetery having been killed on the day of the landings and that indicates that that man was found by locals, and the the local mayoral office made arrangements for his body to be brought to the cemetery. That particular Canadian was to buried by German forces but by local French authorities. This might be the case with Kenedy perhaps. I'll try a question to the CWGC.

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Hello Dennis,

in the police records there's nothing.

I will go to the town hall of the village and I will send an email to ANSA (http://ansa39-45.fr/news.htm)

I sent you an MP.

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

I got the PM thanks

The two Bolz claims. Are the two locations close to each other and the place where you found wreckage?

And your witnesses thought it hit power lines. Woukd they have noticed an attacking aircraft?

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

I sent 2 MPs

between the crash of Cruickshank in Brachy and Envermeu, there is a minimum of 30 km.
http://francecrashes39-45.net/page_fiche_av.php?id=847

for witnesses no air-to-air combat

the telephone line has been cut and 3 wooden poles have been cut

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

CWGC came back to me this morning and their records don't include any details of where his body was found initially, in their case, he was found to be buried in the large cemetery, and there he remains. So, the local town or regional records must be the answer! Hopefully.

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Thank you very much for your help, too bad for the information.

I'm gonna go check on the town hall.

in the police records there's nothing.

thanks

Alex

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

nothing in the town hall's archives......

I don't know where to look anymore :-)

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

I can only imagine maybe that there is somewhere in the UK archives system, perhaps a MRES report or perhaps in the AIR81 files, but they are not being released anytime soon.

Maybe by the time I retire in 30 years they will grace us with these archives.

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Hi,

I can add the following from my research at TNA. The Mustang Squadrons from No35 Wing flew thirty-seven low level tactical reconnaissance missions (and three more were recalled) in support of the raid. These comprised seventy-four sorties (five aborted and five recalled), together with one single sortie gun-spotting mission.

Regarding your five pilots;

6th Mission: Two aircraft (26 Sqn - F/Lt Kennedy (AG536) and Sgt Cliff (AG584)) launched at 0515 to carry out a reconnaissance mission, they were engaged by Fw190’s in the Beaumont-le-Roger area and shotdown at about 0550.

AG536 F/Lt D.N. Kennedy and AG584 Sgt G.D.M. Cliff -Both probably shotdown by Fw190 (Hptm Bolz C/O II/JG2), pilots killed.

7th Mission: Two aircraft (239 Sqn - F/Lt Barnes (AG614) and PO Cruickshank (AG537)) launched at 0550 to carry out a reconnaissance eight miles west of Dieppe to St Valery, to Ouville and to Bacqueville. F/Lt Barnes engaged by four Fw190’s, but unharmed and returned at 0615.

AG537 PO J.R. Cruickshank -Hit by AAA after reaching the coast and then lost, pilot killed.

27th Mission: One aircraft (26 Sqn - F/Lt Dawson (AG418)) launched at 0845 on a reconnaissance mission .

AG418 F/Lt G. Dawson -Shotdown, probably by AAA, pilot killed (the aircraft probably crashed in the Dieppe area at about 09.32).

32nd Mission: One aircraft (239 Sqn - FO Gompertz (AM134)) launched at 1100 to carry out a reconnaissance along roads between Le Tréport, Envernay and Blangy.

AM184 FO P.A.L. Gompertz -Shotdown at about 1135 probably by AAA, pilot killed.

37th Mission: Two aircraft (400 (RCAF) Sqn - FO Gordon and PO Burlington) launched at 1315 on a reconnaissance mission ‘behind Dieppe’ at 1350.

AM151 PO D.G. Burlington -Flying as weaver, last seen near St Aubin, probably shotdown by light AAA, pilot killed

In view of their independent operations, there were often no witnesses to their loss, the ones that I have deemed as probably lost due to AAA fire are due to the lack of any associated Luftwaffe fighter claim around the time. Documents AIR26/51 (No35 Wing ORB) and AIR 37/353 (details of Mustang operations) have some information, but the above losses were just noted as missing.

Regards,

Steve

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

I am trying to remember is there a set of German records for british casualties similar to the US captured/copies series "AV" reports,

Actually these types of reports discussed in thsi thread
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archiv...hp?t-4212.html

perhaps the KE file set?

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Thank you very much Steve49 for those details.

I have just met two witnesses, one tells me that the crash took place at the end of the morning and the other at the very beginning of the afternoon.

it doesn't suit me for Kennedy :-)

I'm about to meet other witnesses.

if it's not Kennedy, the strange thing is that the pilot stayed several days next to the plane and then went missing or buried in Coxide in Belgium like pilot Burlingam.

thank you all

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

I just realized that David Burlingam was RCAF so was able to check his service file on ancestry.com and get some notes on his discovery and burial.

One sheet is an RCAF record copy/translation of a German Document, which reads:

Body washed ashore near Coxyde - Bad 9.9.42 at 11.00 hrs

D G Burlingham J8347 Fighter pilot
Been in water about 14 days
Buried on 10.9.42 in Local Cemetery at Coxyde


This transcription is dated November 1946, and it seems his family were notified by a letter dated 14 Nov 1946 by the RCAF that it appeared their sons body had been found.

And thats it, there is little else in that service record scan relating to how he died, when he was last seen etc

That page of 400 SQn ORB is terribly hard to read! Typical but seems to indicate Burlingam was flying a mission, the Squadrons last Sortie of the day, flying with an F/O Grant. I think it reads: "He was last seen over St Aubin" I cannot be certain.
http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...3/1216?r=0&s=4

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

great, thank you very much Dennis

1 less in the list.......

I must be saint aubin sur mer, next to Dieppe

I'm about to see other witnesses from the crash.

@lexis

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

I asked CWGC to advise what numbers of unknown Allied airmen were buried in Dieppe War Cemetery and they advised:
Grave H. 8 Unknown Flying Officer Royal Air Force 19/08/1942
Grave K. 39 Unknown Flying Officer Royal Air Force 19/08/1942


Also there is, with no known date of death, and thus might not be related to the Dieppe landing at all.

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Thank you for your research, Dennis.

I met a 93-year-old witness, he told me

the aircraft had a large cockade on its side and was not significantly damaged

the crash was late in the morning

he was alive with a big leg injury, probably both legs broken.

He was leaning against a pile of straw with his pipe next to him.

He was very young but he didn't know the color of his hair, maybe he still had his helmet on.

the Germans didn't treat him and he died of his wounds.

he would have been temporarily buried in the nearby village of Gouchaupré (I went to this village's archives but there is no trace of a soldier buried in the cemetery)

He also told me that the family came after the war and that the pilot's body was buried somewhere else.

he confirmed to me that the plane was all alone, that it was flying very low and that he made several machine gunshots on the German convoy before striking wooden poles.

I don't know if I can trust this testimony given the age of the witness, but I think there's a good deal of truth to it.

not easy to conclude something.

Alexis

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

If your witnesses timing is good, then a late morning lost Mustang could only be FO P.A.L. Gompertz (AM184) from 239 Sqn. He was up at 11:00 on his own, shot down by flak at about 11:35 and is listed as having no none grave.

As far as I can see few aircraft were downed by flak at this time, 174 Sqn lost three Hurricanes, but these were over Dieppe. All the other fighter losses at this time were to Luftwaffe fighter aircraft attacks.

Regards,

Steve

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Thank you for restarting the investigation!

according to two witnesses the crash instead in the late morning, but can we trust their statements 76 years later?

is that the time of the crash or the time they saw the plane in the field, they don't know much themselves anymore

several witnesses say they saw the body, if it was Gompertz or would be his body since he is missing and without a grave

on my side I have nothing to advance this story, it's too bad

@lexis

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Good morning, everyone,

I just found this in a book

A plane on fire
At about 9 a.m., during this action, a fighter plane
between the hamlet of Bray and gouchaupré, near, after having
machine-gunned three trucks full of German soldiers.
The plane would get tangled in the telephone wires along the road,
and capsized.
The pilot was killed


http://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=18/33/had3.jpg

1271760 - Sgt Geoffrey Denis Maynard Cliff - 26 Sq - Mustang AG584 - Runnymede Memorial
Probably shot around 5:50 in the Beaumont-le-Roger area.

44183 - F/L Graham Newstead Dawson - 26 Sq - Mustang AG418 - Runnymede Memorial
Shot down in the Dieppe area around 9:30 a.m.

43959 - F/L Donald Newton Kennedy - 26 Sq - Mustang AG536 - Dieppe Canadian War Cemetery
Probably shot around 5:50 in the Beaumont-le-Roger area and shot around 5:50.

45596 - F/L Philip Arthur Leo Gompertz - 239Sq - Mustang AM134 - Runnymede Memorial
Shot dead around 11:00.

J/8347 - P/O David Garrett Burlingam - 400 Sq - Mustang AM151 - Coxyde Military Cemetery
Body washed up on the shore near Koxide in Belgium

I'm continuing the search :-)


Alexis

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Thanks Alexis,
Keep up the good work

Re: Mustang Pilot Information
 

Thanks Dennis,

if anyone has any information about F/L Graham Newstead Dawson - 26 Sq - Mustang AG418 I am a buyer

thank you