Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

Good Morning,

Probably when Oblt. Gunter Korn flew W.Nr. 140608 on April 22 and 25, 1945 he, out of habit, wrote in his flugbuch the "T1" code of his old unit, 3.(F)/Aufkl. Gr. 10.

And when a British mechanic gave the data for VK880 as "T1+GL" 140008, he was just being careless.

I would like to nail down the identity of this aircraft captured at Grove, but no matter how hard I stare, I cannot make out the Geschwader code on pictures of this aircraft.

Can anyone tell me from photographic evidence which it is?

Thanks in advance,

Jim

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

Hi Jim
There is no Geschwader code painted on the fuselage - only the´+ GL
Carsten

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

Thank you, Carsten.

How unusual and interesting. This information is very much appreciated.

Jim

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

It's T1+GL. Has been discussed on this board before. Just do a search.

Junker

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

Hi Junker,

Would you be so kind as to post a link to the thread you are alluding to? I'm having trouble finding it.

Jim

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

IT's a long time ago. So you just have to look through all Ar 234 treads, or postings by me.

Junker

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

Jim,

As part of my research assisting Phil Butler, I collected and collated images of all the captured Ar234s. At the moment my machine is in the shop having a burnt-out hard drive replaced (having a small portable HD as a daily back-up was a God-send). Once back I will go though my files and comment back if I can add to the discussion.

As Jörn stated, you can find more of this machine by searching his postings, or, do a search for "140608".

Cheers,

David

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

Good morning David,

I am sorry for having been obtuse but I had assumed from Jorn's first post that there had been a prior discussion of this topic which I could not find. The search of "140608" resulted in the thread number 13048 in which he ascribes "Ar234 B-2 WNr. 140608 (Air Min 25) T1+GL" as belonging to "Stab FAGr. 1". His sources are "Flugbuch Bauer, Hattan and Korn. Pictures (Tillisch) in my collection. War Prizes by Philip Butler. NA Air 24/1518."

My problem is the "T1". As far as I know, the only unit to use the "T1" code was Aufkl. Gr. 10, and deZeng and Stankey state that Korn was previously in 3.(F)/10. However, 3.(F)/10 using Ju 88D/A-4s in June 1943 was redesignated 1./FAGr. 5 using Ju 290s and Ju 88s and the code "9V'. In February 1945, 1./FAGr. 5 at Quakenbruck became 1./FAGr 1 using Ju88s. At the same time an Einsatzkommando 1./FAGr. 5 continued to exist using Arado Ar 234s and the code "9V". In early May Einsatzkommando 1./FAGr. 5 in Norway became Einsatzkommando 1./FAGr. 1 but too late for the codes of Ar 234 9V+BH and At 234 9V+CH to be changed before the surrender.

http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic.php?p=105599

According to this site, Manfred Griehl in Luftwaffe '45: Letzte Fluge und Projekte (2008) states "#3 (WNr 140608) wurde Mitte April an die 3.(F)/ Aufklarungsgruppe 100 ab gegeben und fiel spatter den Englandern als T9+GL in die Hande."

So, I am curious as to what the photographic evidence says.

Jim

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

As said before the T1+GL is visible in the picture. RAF recorded it as TI+GL. And Korn recorded T1+GL. So it should settle the matter. This discussing keeps pupping up despite the evidence. Please note that it was caotic times for the Luftwaffe in 1945! Griehl has no source for the staement T9+.

Junker

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

Thank you, Junker. That is the statement I was looking for!

Jim

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

"#3 (WNr 140608) wurde Mitte April an die 3.(F)/ Aufklarungsgruppe 100 ab gegeben und fiel spatter den Englandern als T9+GL in die Hande."

Bear in mind that the code of FAGr. 100 was T5. T9+_L would have been 3. Versuchsverband OKL.

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

FO1062/66 - German Aircraft ferried to Farnborough up to 3/7/45 lists it as TI + GL. TI is clearly a typo for T1. It also states the W,Nr as 140008, again another minor typo.

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

Thank you, Nick and Steve.

I think Junker has nailed it down.

Jim

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

I can't see any Geschwader code on this picture and not on the original either

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

I think I can see two possible small characters ahead of the cross but I can't read them (see attached after some adjustments to levels etc.).

Meanwhile, I'm trying to think of a 3. Staffel that had the Ar 234. From memory all the reconnaissance Staffeln were 1.(F)/-something and in KG 76 only the 6., 7., 8. and 9. became operational.

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

What Kind of bellytank can be seen beneth the fuselage?
It is far from possible that this could be a Magirusbombe for the nightfigther.

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

Two ordinary Ar 234 droptanks, one overlapping the other?

Re: Ar 234 W.Nr. 140608 at Grove: T1+GL or T9+GL?
 

It might be of interest that nightfighter Oblt. Josef Pützkuhl flew 140608 for a couple of days on 1,2,4,5 & 7 April 45 for training at Oranienburg (with EKdo Bonow).
It is for a number of reasons it is unlikely that that plane was a converted NF.
Before and after that short episode at Oranienburg Pützkuhl flew his Ju88G-6 W7+GL. Bonow and Pützkuhl knew each other from other NF operations.
Source: Flugbuch copy Pützkuhl.