Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

Hello, re

Beg of 1944, for day-ops, a 2.Luft-beobacht.staffel, was flying with NJG3, what is job ???, survey of bomber streams ??

Reg.

Remi

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

Remi,

According to Aders "History of the German Nightfighter Force" these were "Air Zone Observation Sections" (Luftraumbeobachterstaffeln)

There is a comment on p 143 "The Ju 88R-2 performed far better with the "Air Zone Observation Sections" (Luftraumbeobachterstaffeln)."

On Page 115 there is an organisational chart of the Nightfighter force in April 1944. This shows LBeoSt 2 operating under 2. Jagddivision as was Stab, I and IV/NJG3.

P 170 - July 1944 - disbandment of all LBeoSt instead each gruppe was to form a Lead Section (Führungsschwarm).

Hope this helps a little bit.

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

Great thks, Andy, in fact they where also disbanded because they were no more activ by day, but not just "observing" they fought too, interesting to know if there were such units by night actions, I heard about tries to hv some antic form of "Awacs"

rt

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

Hi,
Please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/Wilde%20&%20Zahme%20Sau.htm
in the Zahme Sau section. It was simply a unit tasked with shadowing the point of the Bomber Stream.
bregds
SES

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

On 22.2.44, NJG reported that amongst its 49 a/c it had two Me 210s that it used as Fühlungshalter, which I take to be contact or shadowing machines. So, were the units providing their own contact machines? I hadn't thought so, but this statement would seem to contradict that.

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

Hi George,
Which NJG are we talking about here? It would be unusual, to put it mildly, to find a radar equipped Me 210 in operational use.
bregds
SES

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

The only losses I found for this unit are day losses, thru return fire of bombers, at that time they certainly pressed everything they had to cope with day-bombers. the Me210 could just be a day-complement.

oNE more question the Night-fighters used for day-ops, still weared there radar installation ??? Difficult to think the contrary..

remi

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

[quote=George Hopp]On 22.2.44, NJG reported that amongst its 49 a/c it had two Me 210s that it used as Fühlungshalter, quote]

Hi,
Which NJG are you talking about?
bregds
SES

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

Sorry about that, I thought I had put it in -- NJG 4. It had about 49 machines on strength on 22.2.44. Of those, were 7 Do 217s with Wendelstein radar. The 110s had FuG 202 radar, and the unit also had 17 FuG 220 sets of which 15 were operational. The Me 210s do not appear to have carried radar. At the time, NJG 4 was part of 4th Fighter Division headquartered at Metz.

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

Hi George,
I cannot find Me 210 in the establishment of NJG 4 here:
http://www.ww2.dk/air/njagd/njg4.htm
could you possibly scan and post your source?
bregds
SES
www.gyges.dk

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

Happy to, SES. Here it is.

Attachment 542

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

Hi,
You definately have a true mystery. To the best of knowledge the Me 210 was not employed operationally with radar, this excludes a night Fühlungshalter role. It would be odd if NJG 4 had these aircraft for a day role, but in our field of research I have learned thet we never say never. Is your source the KTB of II JK or Lft.3?
bregds
SES

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

It was nothing operational. It was from a conference on units and the electronics they possessed. It was run by Luftflotte 3 between 18.2.44 and 28.2.44.

I am pretty certain that the Me 210 did not carry radar for this duty. Since it was with a night-fighter unit, I had not even considered that it might be used for daylight raids. I had thought that it would be directed to the bomber stream, and then to drop flares to light up the route of those bombers.

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

Thank you very much.
bregds
SES

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

Can anyone add any info to the following loss data?

Me 210, 0187, Schlotter, Fw. Karl (Bf), , , Luftbeobachterst. 3, , , , , 11-Feb-44, Killed in FSA due to enemy fire., , RLV, VLM, , West of Koblenz, 100%, F
Ju 88C-6, 750715, Wortmann, Uffz. Heinrich, , 2., Luftbeobachterst. (NJG 3), , D5+CY, , , 22-Apr-44, KIA with crew in Luftkampf., , Nachtjagd, Balss, Deutsche Nachtjagd, p.260; Höhler, Deutsche Nachtjagd Personalverluste, p.76, 81, , Dollern/Stade, 100%, F
Ju 88C-6, 360046, Bürkle, Ogefr. Hermann/Fohr, Ogefr Richard (1wart), , 2., Luftbeobachterst. (NJG 3), , D5+EY, , , 22-Apr-44, Both KIA due to enemy fire while taxiing., , Nachtjagd, Balss, Deutsche Nachtjagd, p.260; Höhler, Deutsche Nachtjagd Personalverluste, p.82, , Stade, b, F
Ju 88C-6, 750400, Piehler, Fw. Erich, , , Luftbeobachterst. 1, , , , , 28-May-44, Crew killed in crash., , Nachtjagd, Höhler, Deutsche Nachtjagd Personalverluste, p.51, , Lichtenstein/Thüringen, 100%, F
Ju 88C-6, 750984, Sonnenberg, Fw., , , Luftbeobachterst. 2, , , , , 22-Feb-44, KIA in Luftkampf with B-17s. 1 other KIA, 1 WIA., , Nachtjagd, Höhler, Deutsche Nachtjagd Personalverluste, p.81, , Kassel, 100%, F
Ju 88C-6, 751005, Obrock, Uffz. Werner (Bf), , , Luftbeobachterst. 3, , , , , 15-Feb-44, Injured, hit tree after take-off and crashed., , RLV, VLM, , Fl.Pl. Deelen near Arnheim, 90%, F
Ju 88C-6, 751461, Wolf, Uffz. Xaver (Bf), , , Luftbeobachterst. 3, , , , , 25-Feb-44, Injured in Notlandung due to engien damage. 1 other injured., , RLV, VLM, , Niederwerth/Holland, b, F
Ju 88R-2, 751036, Dreher, Ofw. Kurt (Bm), , , Luftbeobachterst. 3, , , , , 28-Apr-44, Injured in FSA after Luftkampf., , RLV, VLM, , Perwez/Belgien, 100%, F
Ju 88C-6, 720113, Schelenz, Fw. Rudolf (B)/Stark, Uffz. Adalbert (F), , , Luftbeobachterst. 3, , , , , 20-Feb-44, Crew injured in Notlandung due to fuel shortage., RLV, VLM, , Kardenhövel near Reifferscheid, 60%, F
Bf 110G-3, 5509, Roer, Gefr. Heinrich (?), , , Luftbeob.St. 7, , 6M+JL, , , 19-Mar-44, WIA in Luftkampf., , Nachtjagd, Kock, Das Kriegstagebuch des NJG6, p.59, , Osoppo, b, F
Bf 110G-2, 410097, Pritschow, Ofw. Friedrich (F)/Schneider, Uffz. Karl (Bf), , , Luftbeob.St. 7, , M8+LN, , , 25-Feb-44, Both WIA in Luftkampf., , Nachtjagd, Kock, Das Kriegstagebuch des NJG6, p.49, , near Wels, b, F
Bf 110G-3, 5485, Böch, Fw. Franz (F)/Daute, Uffz. Heinrich (Bf), , , Luftbeob.St. 7, , , , , 07-Apr-44, Bf KIA in Luftkampf. Pilot OK., , Nachtjagd, Kock, Das Kriegstagebuch des NJG6, p.69, , Treviso, b, F
Bf 110F-4, 4782, Sander, Uffz. Horst (F)/Mann, Ogefr. Karl (Bf), , , Luftbeobachterst. 2, , RF+FF, RF+FF, , 24-Feb-44, WIA in Luftkampf. Bf KIA., , Nachtjagd, Höhler, Deutsche Nachtjagd Personalverluste, p.81, , Erfurt, b, F
Bf 110G-3, 5502, , , 2., Luftbeobachtersta., , 5H+GK, , , 28-Dec-43, Notlandung due to fuel shortage., , RLV, Sporen aan De Hemel, II, p.273-4, , , 50%, F

Re: Luft-beobacht.staffel
 

Impressive list, most come from NVM, just one to add

240244, 2.luftbeob.../III.NJG3 BF110G-4 4782 KF+FF 100% Erfurt Abst.feindbesch. 13h30.
All the losses I hv are between 12h00 nd 18h00, it seems that these units operated gen. by day, or are used "aggressivly" by day, nd making observ. tasks by night.
remi