II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

Does anyone have additional information regarding the II/KG4 loss of Oblt. Erich Freiherr von Werthern on 13 May 1940 , (GCiG recip. and kia Russia feb. 1942) ?

Werthern was shot down and was the only survivor , his crew ( W. Peil - R. Winkelmann - E. Schacht ) all kia . His Plane , a He 111 (stab II./KG4) crashed at St. Leonard ( Brecht ) North of Antwerp .

According to Brian Cull's "Twelve Days in May", II./KG4 was attacked near Lille ( North of France) by 85 Squadron Hurricanes and Moranes of GCI/4 , both claimed Heinkels .

Don't know if any additional sources in French shed more light.

Regards

Jeremy

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

Jeremy,

This is what I have:
Aircraft crashed between St Lenaarts and Wuustwezel, North of Antwerpen.
Conditions not very clear, but this a/c was part of 30 II./KG4 machines attacking mostly french positions NW of Breda. Although there is a lot of confusion, the most likely time is an encounter around 18.30 with a patrouille double of 6 Hawk H75s of GC I/4 (Mardijck) over Roosendaal., where they encounter He-111’s escorted by Bf-109s (of I/JG20). Most reports claim 2 He-111s by the Hawks, but apparently they shot down three: 2 aircraft of 5th Staffel at Zevenbergen and Oudenbosch and this one. In the same encounter one Hawk and one Bf-109 were shot down too.

Regards,

Pieter

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

Many thanks Pieter,

Would it be possible to get the source of this information?

Jeremy

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

As always there is no single source, but you have to match (and eliminate!) inputs from multiple sources. In this case amongst others Aerojournal and Icare for the French side, an overview of Luftwaffe crashes in the Netherlands, and the Luftwaffe claim list of Tony Wood.

Regads,

Pieter

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

Hi All,

A total of 6 He 111 were lost that day by KG 4. The one in question belonged to 6./KG 4 based on the Bundesarchiv loss report.

Norbert

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

Hi Norbert,

That is interesting, I can find only 5 of them:

• Two of 1./KG4 at Dordrecht and IJsselsteijn
• Two of 5./KG4 at Zevenbergen and Oudenbosch
• The one of 6./KG4 (and apparently not St.II/KG4) at Wuustwezel

Do you have the names of the crews of the two 1./KG4 machines ?
And where was the 6th aircraft lost?

Kind regards,

Pieter

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

In the database of the Studiegroep Airwar 1939-1945 we have for the Netherlands:

40-05-13 Roosendaal He 111P 100% 5./KG 4 Uffz. F.Maas
40-05-13 IJsselstein / Lagedijk He 111P 100% 1./KG 4
40-05-13 0900 Oudenbosch He 111 100% 5./KG 4 Lt. Röhl
40-05-13 Dordrecht He 111 1./KG 4
40-05-13 Alblasserdam He 111 3356 ? 1./KG 4


Jaap Woortman

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

I made a mistake, there are only 5.

1 from 1./KG 4
2 from 5./KG 4
2 from 6./KG 4

sorry about that,

Norbert

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

Many thanks gentlemen,

Very much appreciated.

Kind regards

Jeremy

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

Jaap,

I think the Heinkel of 1./KG4 that was hit during a mission to Dordrecht crashed at Alblasserdam. It is the same machine. The crew jumped over territory occupied by the paratroopers of the FJR.

We now have the correct number (5) but still a mismatch between the units given by Norbert (1 of 1./, 2 of 6./) and our list (2 of 1./, 1 of 6./). Pity I still don't have the names of all crew members to check the match.

Pieter

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

Pieter,

I think you're right, but believing is no proof.
We need evidence for that assumption.

Jaap

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

Norbert,

Are the names and planes known for the two 5./KG4?

Thanks,
David

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

Hello all,

Have some additional info:

13 May 40
5./KG 4 3 km east of Oudenbosch
BM Uffz Karl Elbin - slightly wounded
BF Uffz Alex Milhahn - seriously wounded
Cause: "Gesch (Jäger)" - both were taken to Tilburg hospital

Between Wuestwezel and Leonhard
F Oblt Erich Frhr v. Werthen - Adj II./KG 4 (killed 25.02.42)
BO Oblt Erwin Schacht (Nav) II./KG 4 killed
BF Gefr Rudolf Winkelmann 6./KG 4 killed
BM Hptg Walter Peil 6./KG 4 killed
Both Winkelmann and Peil were buried at road Brecht - xoen-Lont, at 2 km wsw of Wuestwezel

NE of Antwerp
5./KG 4
F Uffz Fritz Maas
BO Hptg Leonhard Korfhage
BF Uffz Horst Pieles
BM Uffz Kurt Kranich

Source: namentliche Verlustmeldung II./KG 4

Best regards
Rob

Re: II/KG4 loss 13 May 1940
 

Gentlemen,

Sorry but I seem to have missed this thread. I have losses to KG4 on 13 May 1940 as follows:

1./KG4 Heinkel He111P. Hit by flak between Dordrecht and Middelburg and believed crashed between Jutphaas and Jaarsveld, near Ijsselstein. Crew baled out unhurt. Aircraft 5J+CH a write-off.

Stab II./KG4 Heinkel He111P. Attacked by Adj Hôtellier, Lt Weis, and Sgt Joire of GC I/4 between Wuestwezel and St Leonhard during sortie to bomb troop concentrations at Gent. Also hit by AA fire and crashed at Brecht, near Nollekens, 6.30 p.m. Oberlt E. Schacht (Gruppennavigationsoffizier) killed. Hauptgefr W. Peil and Gefr R. Winkelmann (both of 6 Staffel) killed. Oberlt E. Fr von Werthern (Gruppenadjutant) baled out and captured wounded. Aircraft a write-off.

5./KG4 Heinkel He111P. Hit by flak over Roosendaal and crash-landed with starboard engine on fire near Langeweg, between Zevenbergen and Terheyden, 6.00 p.m. Bomb load later exploded. Uffz F. Maas, Uffz H. Pieles, Uffz K. Kranich, and Gefr L. Korfhage captured unhurt. Aircraft 5J+FN a write-off.
Flight engineer, Kurt Kranich, was badly wounded in an air raid while aboard ship in Dunkirk harbour en-route to captivity in England and died of injuries on 6 June.

5./KG4 Heinkel He111P. Shot down by Lt Hirschauer of GC I/4 and crash-landed 3 km east of Oudenbosch 6.00 p.m. Uffz A. Milhahn and Uffz K. Elbin wounded, admitted to hospital in Tilburg. Oberlt Röhl and Oberlt von Talkmann believed unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.

Hope this helps.