Unknown crash-landed B-17 in the Reich
 

Hi,

i have this unknown B-17 picture, i'm sure it will be possible to identify the wreck with the partial code and serial number.

I was unable to read anything on the back of the picture about a possible location...
Crashed in 1943 ?

Thanks for your help !

See You

Vince

Re: Unknown crash-landed B-17 in the Reich
 

It looks like the full serial number would start out 42-35 with some more digits after the 5. The tail seems to show a Triangle K, which would be the 379th BG.

42-3559 was from the 379th BG and according to the fortlog: (http://www.91stbombardmentgroup.com/...ID/FORTLOG.pdf) it crash landed at Ambrieres-Les-Vallees, 25 miles N of Laval, France on 1 December, 1943.

That might be a possibility. Ambrieres-Les-Vallees is just north of Mayenne and "Mayenne" may be what is written on the 2nd line on the back of the photo.

Re: Unknown crash-landed B-17 in the Reich
 

Losses of the 8th & 9th Air Forces vol 1 by Bishop and Hey states the following, citing MACR 1333

T/O Kimbolton, assigned target Solingen, Germany. All navigation instruments were knocked out by Flak, so pilot attempted to reach England by using his compass. Due to weather conditions he never reached the English coast, and when his compass failed he let down through the undercast and made a wide turn to the southwest. He flew over the North Sea, English Channel and Normandy on the French mainland. Continuing in a southerly direction the pilot was forced to make a crash landing in a meadow at Ambrieres-Les-Vallees, about 25 miles north of Laval in France. The fuselage remained intact and all crew escaped safely. 6 POW and 4 Evaded

...Happy to provide crew details if you need them

Nick

Re: Unknown crash-landed B-17 in the Reich
 

Hmmm. According to the B-17 Registry pdf from avialogs.com, 42-3559 526BS, 379BG B-17G was named "Stardust" and lost to Flak 1 Dec 1943 at Rotterdam. I take it that was merely where she was hit?
Peter

Re: Unknown crash-landed B-17 in the Reich
 

Hi Peter,
My source definitely concurs with your unit ID of 526 BS, 379th BG (sorry, I should have mentioned that, my bad...)
And that Flak was involved. No mention of the name "Stardust" or Rotterdam.
I should note that Bishop and Hey did not always mention aircraft names.

She certainly was not a B-17G but a B-17F-75-DL.
Otherwise, Joe Baugher agrees with Peter's info, which is viewable at
http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1942_1.html


3559 (379th BG, 526th BS, "Stardust") shot down by AAA at Rotterdam, Netherlands Dec 1, 1943. MACR 1333. 6 POW, 4 evaded.

Re: Unknown crash-landed B-17 in the Reich
 

Comparing the two, it looks like the pdf from avialogs is identical to Joe Baugher's list ...

Re: Unknown crash-landed B-17 in the Reich
 

I agree.
However, I would be most inclined to take the MACR as gospel, which is what Bishop and Hey quotes. The one strange thing is that Bishop and Hey leaves Rotterdam unmentioned, as you uncovered with your avialogs info. I think you were right in assuming that was where the Flak hit took place though...

Re: Unknown crash-landed B-17 in the Reich
 

First of all I would like to say that all B-17 lists on the net is based upon the research made by Roger Freeman and mostly copied straight from his book The B-17 Flying Fortress Story. Thanks to a many other internet sites (and a few individuals) dedicated to various Bomber Units, a few gaps have been filled in.

Secondly can someone explain the letter partly visible in the picture? Is this the individual code letter we see? Probably a U then? It certainly is not part of the unit code applied to 526BS which was LF.

Finally anyone who tries to go through the US record cards from WW 2 also have to go through the unit records and finally end it all with finding loss registers (MACR is not enough) to get anything resembling a correct picture, knows how hard and time consuming this is. Finding all your work copied on the internet must be simply heart breaking. There are now so many individuals who have stopped doing this due to this theft that it is an incredible loss for us all.

For those still fighting on, my hat is off any day in the week!

Cheers
Stig

Re: Unknown crash-landed B-17 in the Reich
 

Stig, acknowledged....

I can delete my earlier post if that is what is required here. Just say so, and I will do it

Nick

Re: Unknown crash-landed B-17 in the Reich
 

Hey Nick

Not you I am after. Sorry if it came out that way. We all use the net. I do too. I suppose it makes us all 'sinners'. I have no good answer to the problem. In this particular case, I simply wanted to honor Roger, knowing what an incredible work he did in his lifetime. There were/are many others....

Cheers
Stig

Re: Unknown crash-landed B-17 in the Reich
 

I think the letter is a "J" , it also appears on the tail. Note: the fortlog seems to have the plane in the 525th BS, marked (FR-K) when it was lost.

However the four E&E statements, which can be read online, have the men in the 526th. They also have the crash site as "Mayenne".

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/5556840

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/5556841

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/5556984

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/5557053

Re: Unknown crash-landed B-17 in the Reich
 

Thanks

Yes I thought about that as well....
Freeman indicates a transfer from 526BS to 525BS before its loss while the MACR obviously still states it belonged to 526BS.

The code letter K could just as well be a misinterpretation of its 'triangle K' marking on the fin.

It is always a pity when a serial number cannot be read in full, but I agree that 42-3559 is still our best candidate.

Cheers
Stig