Tupolev Tu-2
 

I confess ignorance of this aircraft. I didn't realise it was introduced in late 1942. Can anyone give me an idea if how successful it was in air combat? I know it was heavily armed and that the earlier Petlyakov Pe-2 was the equivalent of the Mosquito FBVI in potency but did the Tupolev exceed it?

regards

Keith

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

Hi Keith,

Sorry, this is not performance info, but probably my only, and very early (June 8, 1943) soviet mechanical record of a Tupolev Tu-2 long-range bomber (S/N: 100101, - serials of installed M-82 engines: 6511514, 6511504) of the VVS DD, 6 GvAP DD long-range bomber regiment - beside some Ilyushin IL-4s (DB-3Fs). Perhaps interested in it. Cheers,

Gabor

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

Keith -

132 BAP was equipped with the Tu-2 from Oct 42 to the end of the war and eventually operated on the central sector of the Eastern Front. Rear area aircraft evaluation and trials to May 1944, then assigned to 334 BAD for combat operations as a conventional bomber regiment.
47 GvDRAP was equipped with the Tu-2 from mid-1943 and flew them to the end of the war, using them in the long-range strategic reconnaissance role from bases at Moscow, Smolensk and Minsk.

I see no evidence in my notes that the Tu-2 was ever used at low-level or in a fighter-bomber role.

L.

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

Thanks Larry and Gabor. I am surprised it was a conventional bomber when it was equipped with wing-mounted guns which must indicate it was expected to strafe ground targets. Jeff Ethell writes "Pilots could maneuver the aircraft like a fighter, it could survive heavy damage, and it was fast" which argues a Mosquito-like role for the aircraft.

regards

Keith

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

Hi all,
the first three TU-2 passed military tests in 128 BAP 211BAD 3 VA during the end of September - early October 1942. One of these planes was No. 101. There is a test program, but unfortunately there is no report after their completion.
good aircraft - big, fast, protected and armed. good bomber and reconnaissance.
Best regards,
Kirill

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

AFAIK the Pe-2 was faster, the Tu-2 slightly larger, 1800kg heavier and 50km/h slower but could carry a heavier bomb load. Perhaps therein lies the answer.
Peter

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

Good day, and in what modification PE-2 was faster than the Tu-2 50 km/h ?

Tu-2 early - maximum speed 521 km/h; Tu-2S - 547 km/h.
Cruising speed in Tu-2 and PE-2 were about the same. Tu-2 (experimental 1942 with M-82 engines) - 405-420 km/h at an altitude of 1000-3000 m; 450 km/ h at an altitude of 4500-5000 m

The bomb load of the Tu-2 was more than twice. In addition, it could be equipped with a normal load FAB-500 and FAB-1000 on the internal suspension (without compromising speed data).

Arms of front sector is against fighters. For fighters recommended such attacks against well-armored bombers. RO-132 (wings) and RO-82 (on tail-ago) - this is more psychological weapons against fighters (his and PE-2 applied).

The purpose, size, speed, and bomb load it was like the later version of Ju-88 bombers. Somewhere inferior-somewhere superior. Make him a night fighter like the Germans ? What for? There were no real opponents for such an aircraft. To make a very fast and high-altitude long-range reconnaissance aircraft also did not have a lot of such tasks and the main thing was not enough of such a high-altitude engine to surpass the German high-altitude fighter ones .

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

Hello Keith,

It is great that you are interested in the subject, there is plenty worth discussing concerning Soviet the performance and operational employment of Soviet aircraft. These topic are still very poorly understood in the West, part of a general picture of a grotesque misunderstanding of the Soviet Union and its armed forces.

The most important fact to understand about the Tu-2 is that it was Tupolev's literal way of getting out of prison. Tupolev had been the de-facto chief favourite of Stalin among aviation designers until other, even more vicious, schemers like Yakovlev and Ilyushin managed to get ahead of him and put him in jail. Tupolev's idea was to make a twin-engine super bomber, or rather get Stalin to believe that he was making one, and thereby return to favour. Since the USSR was backward, there were no engines which could power such an aircraft and Tupolev made little headway until the M-82 engine finally entered series production in 1942. Even then, only the M-82FN version of this engine, with increased boost and direct fuel injection had sufficient power to give the Tu-2 reasonable performance. Tupolev made the Tu-2 relatively fast by keeping its dimensions and weight similar to light bombers like the A-20 Boston, even though it was intended to perform the missions of a medium bomber. The Soviet Union had no medium bombers worth the name, flying obsolete Il-4s and malfunctioning Yer-2s. Therefore, there was a ready gap for the Tu-2 to fill and several hundred were produced before the war ended. They operated on a limited scale with heavy fighter escort and their main utility lay in their ability to carry a load of up to two tonnes of bombs, compared to the one tonne load of the Pe-2. The Tu-2s could also drop the one tonne FAB-1000 bomb.

The Tu-2s were concentrated in the three divisions of the 6 BAK (bomber air corps) at the end of the war. Given the heavy escort which was always provided and the weakness of German air power in the East, losses were few, although there were some occasions when individual formations of Tu-2s suffered heavy losses to German fighters. With its rear-facing defensive armament consisting of three single machin-guns, attacking the Tu-2 did not pose any significant difficulty for German interceptors.

Regards,

Dan

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

Hi Dan H. -

Re Tu-2 production: von Hardesty in Red Phoenix has 2,527. Is this an error on his part?

Your student in Florida,
Larry deZ.

Postscript of 29 August: a private e-mail from a Russian member has informed me that total Tu-2 production to the end of 1945 was 1,216 while the grand total of all Tu-2 aircraft produced was 2,527.

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

I have seen at least 2 websites state the top speed of the Pe-2 as 580km/h, vvsairwar.com being one -

"Serial production Pe-2s were powered by twin Klimov M-105PF liquid-cooled V-12 piston engines that generated 1,100 horsepower each, which gave the aircraft a top speed of 580 km/h (360 mph) and a range of 1,160 km (721 miles). The dive-bomber was a fast and agile aircraft that outperformed all other Soviet bombers that been built up to this point."

Other sites state 540km/h. No references given.

I now have consulted my Squadron-Signal reference and found you are correct. My apologies, I should have done that in the first place!
In that book the initial variants of the Pe-2 are stated to have a top speed of 540, later variants got progressively slower to the Pe-2 v95 at 488, then quicker again to v205 at 521.
So who knows where 580 came from .......
Again, apologies for presenting incorrect information.
Peter

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

Peter, can this speed the latest series, where the engines VK-105PF4 and carried out activities to improve aerodynamics? but it's good that they did not write the maximum speed of the experimental Pe-2I / Pe-2M / DB-108 branch, which fluctuated within 656-700 km / h.
Best regards,
Kirill

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

According to the Squadron/Signal book the Pe-2I reached a speed of 656km/h, the Pe-2M 630.
No mention of speed of the v359, the last major wartime redesign of the Pe-2.
I had thought maybe the Pe-2R Recon version may have been faster given it had the external bomb racks and dive brakes removed, but I don't have any information on its performance.
Peter

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

Tu-2 manual


.

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1YtCElTtiL.jpg
https://www.amazon.ca/Tupolev-Tu-2-F...ds=tupolev+tu2


Haven't read it but this book was published recently.

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

Hello Larry,

Further to the comments I made to you, I have now checked the Soviet order of battle figures for 1 January 1945 and can see that there were 278 Tu-2 bombers in operational units on that date, 206 of them on the frontline. Other sources state that "about 800" Tu-2s were delivered before the end of the war. Production continued until 1949 and in very small numbers even into 1952, as you now know.

Warm regards,

Dan

Re: Tupolev Tu-2
 

Hi Dan H.,

Thanks for the additional information as production figures can sometimes be confusing due to different figures in different sources. With 1,216 to the end of 1945, your figure of "about 800" to approx. 8 May 1945 sounds very reasonable.


Thanks again,

Larry deZ.