Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

Hello,

Has anyone any knowledge of Allied Airmen ( not USAAF ? ) that were lost over Italy in September "44 and not yet found ?

If I am correct the Runnymede Memorial does not give place of death, only date and Squadron where known ?

I search for three who were eventually captured and shot. So far I can find no a/c loss that fits their being captured on 1st October '44 after several days hiding in a Barn.

These airmen were in the Brixen, Bozen area according to document signed by the Bergermeister Herr Dr. Stanek.dated 2nd October '44. At the time of the event they were thought to be Americans, but some doubt has recently been shed on their nationality.
Any ideas as to any RAF/RAAF/RNZAF/SAAF a/c downed in this area in 1944 ?
Actually the site is Brixen, better Neustift Riggertal. Rigger Valley. ITALY-NOW South Tyrol.! Some kind of a broad deep canyon.

Sadly, none of the following seem to fit :(

31/1-9-44
Baltimore V - 55 Sqn - FW459 - Pitts; Cameron; Stogdale; Ives.
1-9-44
Ventura V - 17 Sqn SAAF - JT827 - Bain-Marais; Van Der Walt; Terblanche.
Spitfire VIII - 241 Sqn - JF394 - Hamankiewicz.
2-9-44
Kittyhawk IV - 5 Sqn SAAF - FT878 - Dickson/pow, + 15-9-44.
Spitfire IX -'7 Sqn SAAF - MH563 - Griessel.
Mosquito PR XVI - 60 Sqn SAAF - NS532 - Impey ; Saunders.
Spitfire IX - 601 Sqn - Adams.
4-9-44
Marauder III - 30 Sqn SAAF - HD596 - Grants /pow; Bester/pow;Le Sueur/pow; Robb; Gelb; MacNamara.
Beaufighter TF.X - 272 Sqn - NV142 - Burgess ( plus one ?).
Beaufighter TF.X - 272 Sqn - NV203 - West; Young.
6-9-44
Kittyhawk IV - 3 Sqn SAAF - FX750 - Hedger (RAAF).
7-9-44
Wellington X - 40 Sqn - LN757 - Quin; Morris; Dobson; Belt; Roberts.
9-9-44
Kittyhawk IV - 5 Sqn SAAF - FX570 - Bennee.
Marauder III - 21 Sqn SAAF - HD409 - Andrews; Kimbrey; Maeder; Chessman; Botha; Viret.
11-9-44
Spitfire VB - 5 RFU - ER139 - Waters.
12-9-44
Boston IV - 114 Sqn - BZ499 - Martin; Turner ; Gilbert(?).
Halifax II - 148 Sqn - BB412 - Van der Hart ; O'Brian; Parkinson; McKeen; Ives ; Ireland; Ellison; Cromwell And five passengers, Whitaker(army); Brubec(czeck); Nocar( czeck); Marchiori (Italy); Voglino (Italy).
Spitfire VIII - 417 Sqn - LV754 - Baxter.
13-9-44
Kittyhawk IV - 5 Sqn SAAF - FX772 - Morrison.
Marauder III - 21 Sqn SAAF - HD591 - Wilson; Trotsenberg; Whiteham/pow; Horscroft ; Swale/pow; Carter.
Stirling IV - 624 Sqn - LK187 - Owen; Platt; Terry.
17-9-44
Spitfire IX - 1 Sqn SAAF - MA529 - Roy.
Spitfire IX - 1 Sqn SAAF - MH664 - Farrell.
18-9-44
Kittyhawk IV - 5 Sqn SAAF - FX841 - Raleigh/pow.
Spitfire IX - 185 Sqn - MK724 - Rowe.
21-9-44
Spitfire IX - 238 Sqn - BS530 - Lee.
22/23-9-44
Halifax II - 1586 Flt - JP222 - Beer ; Kuhn; Milewski; Molinski; Kozlowski; Mirowski; Martyniuk; Woolf.
23-9-44
Auster IV - 654 AOP - MT301 - Farrer.
24-9-44
Warwick ASR 1 - 293 Sqn - BV446 - Purcell; Peacock; Lonsdale; Delmage; Martin.
25-9-44
Kittyhawk IV - 3 Sqn SAAF - FX664 - Faria.
Mustang III - 112 Sqn - FB323 - McFie.
Spitfire LF.IXb - 601 Sqn - PT598 - Leslie.(RNZAF).
26-9-44
Kittyhawk IV - 3 Sqn SAAF - FX569 - Sanders.
30-9-44
Liberator B.VI - 31 Sqn SAAF - KG967 - Valentine; Bradshaw; Reilly; Stockford; Airlie; Knight; Rogers; White.

Nore do any in The 2nd vol of the RAF Bomber Losses in the Middle East & Med book :(

So any ideas ?

Alex

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

Alex,
It is not so easy. Entire Italy was full of escaped PoW of all nationalities, and they are easy to missidentify and impossible to trace.

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

Hello,
From what I have been given to understand these three airmen were not identified as escaped Pow's but as recently downed airmen. But as you say it is a possibility to be addressed.
Apart from Italian, German American and British Commonwealth airmen what other nationals were in action over northern Italy in September 1944 ?
Alex

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

Hi Alex

31 August 44

55 Sqn FW459 shot down near Faenza. pilot POW.

Lt B J Marais P POW
Flg Off R.A.Pitts N KiA b Faenza;
Flt Sgt C.W. Stogdale; WOP KiA b Faenza
Sgt R.E. Ives AG KiA b Faenza .

took off 0310 approx on morning of 31 August, shot down by Flak, rest of formation returned by 0615.

2/Lt D M Cameron was a navigator lost on 2 September in FW482 on a daylight recce of the north Adriatic,

Send me a PM and I can go through all the others on your list.

Cheers


Russell

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

USAAF Losses Italy September 1944
Date - MACR' - Serial - Group - Crew
01. - 5231 - unknown - 465BG - 10 Kia.
02. - 8380 - 42-26421 - 57FG - 1 FOD.
04 - 8390 - 44-41340 - 450BG - 10 (7kia,3pow ).
04. - 8736 - 42-75664 - 57FG - 1 Kia.
04 . - 8777 - 42-75744 - 57FG - 1 Kia.
05 - 8090 - 42-95937 - 320BG - 7 ( 3Kia, 4 Rtd ).
05. - 8370 - 42-51168 - 98BG -10 ( 3Kia, 7Rtd ).
05 - 8734 - 42-75648. - 57FG. - 1 Kia.
05 - 8753 - 42-28355 - 350FG - 1Kia.
05. - 8782 - 42-28559 - 350FG - 1 Kia.
06 - 8343 - 43-24834. - 31FG - 1 Kia.
07 - 8355 - 42-106605 - 52FG - 1 Rtd.
08 - 8446 - 42-51888 - 376BG - 10 ( 2 Kia, 8 Rtd[2Pow]).
09 - 8382 - 43-27735 - 310BG - 6 ( 5 Kia, 1 Rtd).
09 - 16195 - Unknown - 60 TCG - All aboard Killed.
10 - 8740 - 42-76492 - 376BG - 10 ( 2Kia, 8 Rtd).
11 - 16356 - Unknown - 86FG - 1 Kia.
12 - 8351 - 41-28939 - 455BG - 10 ( 10Pow/Rtd).
12 - 8747 - 41-28762 - 376BG - 11 ( 4Kia, 7 Rtd).
12 - 8781 - 42-27921 - 86FG - 1Kia.
12 - 8945 - 42-75729 - 57FG - 1 Kia.
13 - 8444 - 42-7748. - 450BG - 10 ( 5Pow/5Evdr[10Rtd] ).
13 - 8448 - 44-6349. - 483BG - 10 ( 9Kia, 1Pow/Rtd).
13 - 8764 - 42-52363 - 460BG - 11 ( 2Kia + 1Fod/8 Rtd).
13 - 8953 - 44-6354. - 97BG - 10
14 - 9669 - 44-23230 - 3PRG - 1Fod.
15 - 8775 - 42-75679 - 57FG - 1 Kia.
15 - 9900 - 42-97568 - 483BG - All Pow/Rtd.
16 - 8944 - 42-28322 - 350FG - 1Kia.
18 - 8938 - 43-27771 - 310BG - 6 (5 + [1Pow] Rtd).
18 - 8940 - 43-28068 - 310BG - 7 ( 1Kia, 5 + [1Pow] Rtd).
19 - 15288 - FD865. - RAF. - All killed .
22 - 8963 - 42-27002 - 86FG - 1 Pow/Rtd.
22 - 8964 - 42-28042 - 86FG - 1Kia.
22 - 9038 - 42-27264 - 350FG - 1Rtd.
23 - 8965 - 42-27946 - 86FG - 1Pow/Rtd.
23 - 8936 - 42-107555 - 319BG - 5 ( 2Kia, 2 + [1Pow] Rtd ).
25 - 8961 - 42-28329 - 350FG - 1Pow/Rtd.
25 - 9709 - ND294. - 414NFS - 2 (2 Kia ).
26 - 8941 - 42-95785 - 319BG - 1Kia, 1 Evd.
26 - 8962 - 42-27244 - 86FG - 1Pow/Rtd.
30 - 8966 - 42-26992 - 86FG - 1Rtd.

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

Alex, case number 96 on the first page of the link is about a war crime that happened Oct 1 at Bressanone (Brixen) Italy in which three British soldiers were murdered. Is this the same case? If they really were soldiers (as opposed to airmen) I think it is more likely they were escaped POWs.

https://www.legal-tools.org/doc/dd852f/pdf/

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

Hello Rolland,
Thank you for the link.
The wording in the correspondence is " amerikanische Soldaten" and also "amerikanische Fliegersoldaten"
So you have now opened up another question as to Soldier's or Airmen ?
Have not yet looked at the link but you may well have solved this problem if the details match.
Alex

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

Is there any possibility that they were OSS or SOE agents dropped to work with Italian partisans?

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

Don't forget French.
For example B-26 42-107765 #39 of GBM II/20 Bretagné, Sardinia. Crash landed in Italy 10.9.44.

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

The trial mentioned by Rolland in post 6 is covered in a file at TNA Kew:


WO235/128 (part of series - Judge Advocate General's Office: War Crimes Case Files, Second World War)

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

Hello, Rolland & Bruce,
The names Peter Garner and Pfalzer are indeed on the correspondence I have, dated 4 the Oct 44.
Other names Sebastian Caloneto, Viktor Ralio and Rafael Emilio are also in the letter which looks to be signed by Frindt(?).
So Rolland it looks like this is the same event.
However it does leave the Soldier or Airmen question open do you think ?
If Soldiers then how were they so far north at this time unless they were escapees ?
No names in the report as far as I could see so 3 "British?" Soldiers(?) - what became of their remains, is that known I wonder ?

Thank you all for your help in resolving this question for me.
Alex

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

Alex,

Here is the full case. I don't think it resolves who the men were. There is a sentence about the bodies later being in a cemetery chapel, so I assume they were (at least initially) buried in a nearby cemetery, possibly the main cemetery in Brixen. Have you tried searching British War Cemeteries in Northern Italy for men with a date of death of Oct 1, 1944? Just looking at Google maps you can see Brixen is close to the Austrian border. I am not sure if any POW camps were located that far north, which makes the escaped POW idea a little less likely. Brixen is on the railroad route up to the Brenner Pass which was being bombed around that time, so the concept of a shot down air crew is also quite plausible. That also makes the concept of a failed SOE/OSS mission seem plausible. See, for example here: https://www.cia.gov/news-information...phen-hall.html

There is also a mention in the trial record that there was a warning of "parachutists about" i.e. in the area. (There is nothing to suggest the three men were actually parachutists, but it does not say they were not either.)


War Crimes Case:
https://www.legal-tools.org/doc/d3e3b0/pdf/

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

Hello Rolland,

In the first post The names are all from the CWGC . Those that survived and became pow are noted as such.
As I then said, none seemed to fit the 3 shot men.
However it now may well be possible to narrow down those who are known to have been buried in one place then reburied inacWar Cemetery post War.

Many thanks for your fantastic work
Alex

Re: Mia's September 1944 Italy
 

Hello Russell,

Re FW459 and FW482

FW459 - 55 Sqn - Mia Po Valley on night interdiction mission 1st September, 44.
Cameron was navigator in this a/c .
Marais - pow was not in this a/c.

FW482 - 15 SAAF - 55 - 454 RAAF was lost on the 6th May, 44.

Marais - was in fact BAIN-MARAIS, C.T - LT - 103726V - SAAF.
He was not a pow .

He was in a/c JT827, a PV-1 Ventura of 17 Sqn SAAF which was mia on a shipping sweep off the Italian coast on the 1st September, 44.

Also in the crew were -
F/O W.L.Thacker - 131160 - RAFVR.
WO1 - G. J. Terblanche - 313048V - SAAF.
WO1 - W.F. Van Der Walt - 580628V - SAAF.
Sgt. M.T. Bird - 1583189 - RAFVR

All aboard were killed.

Alex