Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Hello I'm looking for informations about RAF Mustang IV sent to ACSEA at the end of the war.

Thank you.

Alain

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Could be wrong but I understand that most went direct to scrap yards.

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Hi Alain,

Can you be a bit more specific about which RAF Organizations in the South East Asian Theatre you are searching for?

I am unaware of any regular RAF squadrons operating late model bubble canopy Mustangs in SEA or specifically CBI (China Burma India) Theatre of operations. The following website - http://www.historyofwar.org/articles...stang_RAF.html - gives a quick reference of the types of Mustangs used by the RAF per squadron. It's not totally comprehensive, but is reasonably accurate. I cross-checked the indicated squadrons flying the Mk.IV against John Rawlings' "Fighter Squadrons of the R.A.F. ....".

For - No. 19, 64, 65, 93, 112, 118, 122, 126, 154, 213, 234, 249, 250, 260, 303, 442 and 611 Squadrons RAF - all were based in western Europe (UK mainly) or a few in the Middle East/Mediterranean area. None were noted in SEA while operating Mustangs.

A number of Australia-based RAAF squadrons were operational towards the end of the Pacific war (circa July-Aug 1945), and you can find more details of any actual wartime operational use with the P-51D (Australian assembly code CA-17 or CA-18, RAAF type-designation A68-xxx) on the ADF-serials website - http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a68.htm - the RAAF never used the Mustang IV designation for P-51s in the SW Pacific. I don't believe any of the Australian-based P-51s flew operational sorties against Japanese forces in 1945.

Joe Baugher's website - http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/p51_11.html - makes a short reference to "...the end of the war in Europe, the RAF took delivery of 600 Mustang IVs in India for use against the Japanese in Burma and beyond. However, Japan surrendered before these could be put to use, and most of these aircraft were scrapped......" However, there are no specified serial numbers listed - unlike most of his other sections. So perhaps there had been plans in discussion, but no actual production or deliveries to India.

Are you looking for any specific aircraft-trials or test squadron/unit operating the Mustang IV?


Regards, ...geoff

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Alain:
My best count was just over 200 Mustang IV that went to ACSEA. The majority were from KM 317 to KM 741. Most of these were delivered in early August 1945 and as far as the AM 78 reveal none were combat deployed, though 3 had accidents with TWDU, 320MU, and 5CMU. KM 147, 154, 169, and 174 were deployed to ACSEA in March 1945. Hope that this helps. Ted51

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Hello Geoff,
Air Britain RAF serial "KA-KZ" series gives serials with note "FE" and "SOC" most went "to India" .
Serials I have in this range are -
KM147;154;169;174;385;478;525;538;541;543;545;548; 549;553;554;557;562;564;569;573;574;
576;577;582;584-587;589-591;593;595;597;600;601;604;605-743.
Could be more ?
Alex
PS
If I remember correctly these the number I gave were from an old Air Enthusiast magazine ?

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Hi Alex,


SOC = Struck Off Charge, which means taken off RAF service and covers a host of designations ranging from destroyed on operations through to an allocated service serial reserved for an actual aircraft but not actually used.


I have no doubt that a lot of aircraft production was planned for the Far East - Burma, Operation Zipper (the planned Allied invasion of Malaya), the eventual invasion of the Japanese Home Islands, etc. I would be keen to know how many of the serials in Air Britain actually corresponded to US c/n as produced and shipped aircraft. I don't have anything at hand to confirm or deny this fact.


600 (Baugher's numbers) long-range late-model Mustangs seems a very large number to scrap in-situ in India, especially as some UK-based squadrons were using their Mustang IV's until 1947.



...geoff

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Alex/Geoff

Four SAAF Squadrons were supposed to be sent to the CBI front, but the Japanese surrender stopped all such plans.

Except for a few aircraft assembled (one was KM730) and test flown, all aircraft remained in their packing crates and ultimately returned to USAAF care.

Due to a severe lack of shipping space, the USAAF simply could not handle them back to USA and it was decided to scrap them in situ.

I am not sure if it is possible or not to say exactly how many Mustang IV which actually arrived. 600 seems like a rounded figure to me....

Cheers
Stig

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

From my copy of Bruce Robertson's "British Military Aircraft Serials 1912-1966" (1966 Edition):
KH641-670 Mustang IV
KH671-870 Mustang IV.A (KH687 crashed in USA before delivery)

KM100-492 Mustang IV (ex-USAAF P-51K)
KM493-743 Mustang IV (ex-USAAF P-51D)
KM744-799 not delivered
(Not sure if ex-USAAF means diverted from USAAF orders, or ex-USAAF service aircraft?)


Alex,
Any chance of a scan of the Air Britain pages with the Mustang IV lists?


Regards,
...geoff

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Hello,

Just to add -

Air Britain's " The British Air Commission and Lend-Lease" has the following on page 115.

Mustang IV(P51D) - North American - AC-2400 - BSC43196.
48 Aircraft.
48 Aircraft to India:
KM696 - 743.
44-84391 to 84397 (7).
44-84468 (1).
44-84681 to 84720 (40).

These were only the Lend-Lease aircraft and are included in my earlier list.

At least 176 a/c

I suggest that the 600 figure may include the 176(?)RAF a/c and a/c of other Mustang user's in the region..

Alex

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

I have seen a picture of P-51Ds in SEAC roundels in a postwar scrap yard, which would certainly confirm their arrival. I can't swear how many, but not 600 in the picture!

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Hello Geoff,
Re scans of the page.
Sorry I only have a tablet and on occasion use the local library ( which only has one machine connected to a scanner) so even that is hit or miss if I hump the book to the library as someone else could be on that machine :(
Perhaps another member could help ?
All the best
Alex

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

From the JB site -

KM
147 - 44-12270
154 - 44-12277
169 - 44-12292
174 - 44-12297
385 - 44-12651
478 - 44-12795
525 - 44-12935
538 - 44-12965
541 - 44-12968
543 - 44-12970
545 - 44-12972
548 - 44-12975
549 - 44-12976
553 - 44-12980
554 - 44-12981
557 - 44-12984
562 - 44-12989
564 - 44-12991
569 - 44-12996
573 - 44-13050
574 - 44-13051
576 - 44-13053
577 - 44-13054
582 - 44-13059
584 - 44-13061
585 - 44-13062
586 - 44-13063
587 - 44-13064
589 - 44-13066
590 - 44-13067
591 - 44-13068
593 - 44-13070
595 - 44-13072
597 - 44-13074
600 - 44-13077
601 - 44-13078
604 - 44-13081
605 to 623 - 44-13082 to 44-13100
624 to 663 - 44-13141 to 44-13180
664 - 44-13221
695 - 44-13252
696 - 44-84391
697 - 44-84392
698 - 44-84393
699 - 44-84394
700 - 44-84395
701 - 44-84396
702 - 44-84397
703 - 44-84468
704 to 743 - 44-84681 to 44-84720.

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Yes i can send you the pages if you give me your e-mail

Thank you everybody for your informations !

Alain

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Hello.

I had a look at two of those Mustang IV's (KM622 & KM631), some time ago:

http://www.rafcommands.com./forum/sh...stang-IV-KM622

The two pilots are buried at Ranchi, India. I suspect A-B has got the location wrong, possibly "Kangla", not "Kargulia".

The Tactical & Weapons Development Unit at Amarda Road, had three Mustang IV's on strength (KM147, KM174 & KM525).

Would welcome comments/opinions.

Col.

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Hello Alain, thank you for the offer to help,I apreciate it.

Hello Col,
I would think that AB's Halley had searched relevant documents and perhaps copied an original error from same ?
Thanks for contributing to this thread, apreciate it.
I wonder if the two (622 & 631) had collided in cloud ?

Alex

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Colin Cummings spells the place name Karjulia and adds 6½ mls south-west of Golikers. Regardless of that I cannot find either place on Google Maps.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Stig,

You will notice in my link to RAFCommands, that my correspondent did not include the title for the entry on Mustangs KM622/631 from Cummings' "The Price of Peace". Not having a copy of his book, I was flying blind.

Thanks for the mention of the missing information, it negates my proposal of "Kangla".

Here is the entry for the unit (158 SP Ferry Sect.):

No.158 STAGING POST

(1) Formed 10.4.45. at BAIGACHI (originally 24.8.42) in No.117 Wing; 1.7.45 ALIPORE; Disbanded 30.11.45.
(2) Reformed by 1.2.46 at CHAKULIA; disbanded 11.5.46

Aircraft of Ferry Flight: Mustang IV (KM622); Hurricane XIIa (PJ860)

See: RAFFT&SU since 1912/Sturtivant/A-B(2007)/p.258.

The mention of KM622/Chakulia looks interesting! The USAAF had quite a presence at Chakulia: http://www.midnapore.in/arifield/chakulia-airfield.html Seems like a logical place for the collection of decommissioned RAF/US aircraft.

I should also mention, that both KM622 and KM631, were initially reported missing. Their last reported position was 50 miles S of Ranchi. They were obviously located later on.

Col.

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

The Mustang IVs did flew with FE units based overthere. I put a paragraph in my book 'The Mustang IV over Italy and the Balkans' - SQUADRONS! No.11. I know that it was not the best place to put this kind of info, but I could not put what I got somewhere else...

Actually only three pilots were trained on Mustangs at 1331 CU before training was terminated. They received their first aircraft at the end of August 1945. The Mustang was sent to the FE to replace the Thunderbolts, but with the termination of the Lend-Lease Act there no more reason to continue that conversion as British-made aircraft had to be introduced as soon as possible anyway. So the RAF continued to use the Thun until the arrival of British types.

The other unit which flew the Mustang was the T&WDU with at least three aircraft of which two were SOC after accident, KM147 (F/L AE Lee) on 04 June 45 and KM174 (S/L JFD Ecklington) on 27 July.

I published a nice photo of KM545 with ACSEA roundels being refuelled in the FE, as well of KM735, but location unknown, probably in the USA.

HTH

Phil

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Alain,
Yes please. e-m address: bearoutwest (at) yahoo.com.au
(at)=@ and no spaces


Alex,
No worries. Thanks for the list, it answers 75% of my curiosity anyway.



Regards, ...geoff

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Gentlemen:
I trust that this isn't too late. From the AM 78s there were 235 Mustang IVIVas in the KM 100-741 block that were shipped to the FE. The first 4 to make it were KM 147, 154, 169 and 174. They were received in March 1945. The rest were received at varying times in August 1945. The greatest number were in the block of KM 500-741. The majority were SOC in April 1946 or August 1946. It would appear that none of these aircraft were combat deployed though I could be wrong at that as I am not an expert at reading the AM 78s. There were 3 recorded accidents with the following organizations: TWDU, 320MU, and 5 CMU. Hopefully this will help a bit. Ted51abcdk

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Sorry Geoff but my scanner is out of use !!!

Alain

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Geoff

With Alain's scanner out of order, I have scanned the pages and sent them over to you

Cheers
Stig

Re: Mustang IV in ACSEA
 

Gentlemen (both here, and those of you who sent me copies off-line),

Thank you all.

My interest - apart from curiosity from this thread - was also a bit off topic, to see if any of these unused Mustang IV's were actually diverted to the Nationalist Chinese.

Regards,
...geoff