Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

Hello,


what means the data in form of "xx-xx-xx-xx" in the "Besatzungen" (Crews) column in Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945?


For example II./SG1 18:00 4.Feb.1945: 35-34-29-1


Best regards,
Andrey

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

I believe the following;

35 = Ist-Bestand (number of pilots)
34 = Einsatzbereit (operational fit)
29 = Verfügbar (available, some pilots were away from the unit)
1 = not sure about the last column.....Bedingt Verfügbar (?)

Regards,

John

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

Thank you, John!


So, only 4th column still unclear.


Kind regards,
Andrey

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

A straight translation might be "conditionally available".
So the aircraft is available but subject to flying or mission conditions?
Peter

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

This is only about crew, not about aircraft

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

I think that the first column means Sollstärke (authorized strength) and the second column Iststärke (actual strength), so the third column could mean Einsatzbereit

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

Flugzeugführer:

1st: Soll (authorized strength)
2nd: Ist (actual strength)
3rd: Einsatzbereit (combat ready)
4th: Bedingt Einsatzbereit (conditional combat ready)


Regards,
Norbert

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

Norbert/Andrei,

Soll-Stärke is of course normally listed but not in the specific Lfl. 6 reports Andrey is referring to.

John

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

Just a quick query.

I thought that 3rd: Einsatzbereit (combat ready) + 4th: Bedingt Einsatzbereit (conditional combat ready) equals 2nd: Ist (actual strength). However, from the LW strength report of 13 April 1945 (widely circulated), that is apparently not necessarily the case.

So, who are these pilots covered under the 4th: Bedingt Einsatzbereit? Replacement pilots?

Sinisa

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

We are drifting of topic here imho....the Strength Reports of Lfl.6 KTB that Andrey is referring to in his initial post/question do NOT list SOLL-Stärken, neither for a/c or for personnel.

J.

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

Are we talking about the reports like the excerpt in the attachment?

I could be wrong, of course, but from this I can not see why the first column is not Soll.
It is interesting to note that the number in the first column is almost always equals the sum of numbers in the second and fourth columns. So, if the first column means authorized strength and the second means actual strength, the fourth column could mean Fehlen (lacking). The rare exceptions to the rule 1 = 2+4 could either be a typo or indicate the unit's uncertainity about the fate of the recently missing crews

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

If you copy a whole page and attach it you will see what I mean. For a/c only actual strength and operational is recorded (not the SOLL).

For crews this is the same. If SOLL would have been the 1st column you would see the same number for all similar units. You do not see that. The first column is definitely ACTUAL (IST) strength not SOLL.

John

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

To repeat my query.

I thought that 3rd: Einsatzbereit (combat ready) + 4th: Bedingt Einsatzbereit (conditional combat ready) equals 2nd: Ist (actual strength). However, from the LW strength report of 13 April 1945 (widely circulated), that is apparently not necessarily the case.

So, who are these pilots covered under the 4th: Bedingt Einsatzbereit? Replacement pilots?

Sinisa

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

John,

I can see no similarity between tables for aircraft and crews as the number of columns is obviously different.
The form of four numbers under title "crews" looks like being widely known and widely used in the time and not restricted just to this document, so its meaning was self-evident to those, whom these reports were adressed

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

Just to get us back on the right track....this is the document Andrey K. was referring to. As you can see a/c are listed only as "Ist" and "Eins."...no soll. This is also clear as for instance all Gruppe of JG 6 should have Soll-Stärke of 68 (or possibly 52) at that time.

The 4 columns of crew is the riddle.....the first column CAN NOT be Soll as that should have been listed as 68 (52) for all JG-Gruppen at the eastern front. So, I believe my explanation for the first three columns are correct as you can match them with other available Lfl. 6 Einsatzbereitschaft Meldungen for a certain period and they match in numbers. The point is.....what is that last column....the majority of the units have -0- ZERO there....

Thanks,

John

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

John,

It was not necessarily so. Please look at the link below. I think that the meaning of the column Besatzung there is similar to the meaning of similar column in Lfl.Kdo. 6 documents. And we could see that, for example all Gruppen of J.G. 26 have different Soll strength of pilots
http://ww2.dk/articles/elflr1.html

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

Andrei,

Unfortunately M.Holm on his website made a mistake. As you will have noticed these are not the original documents and M.Holm made an error in his tables. I have enclosed the Einsatzbereitschaft Lfl. 6 of 1.4.45 in the evening. That is listed on the same webpage also. You can compare the original document with the website of M.Holm and you will easily see the mistake.

Finally, I also enclosed the E-Meldung format of the KTB Lfl. 6 for the SAME date 1.4.45 and you now can compare the numbers. You will notice that the four columns of the original question/document indeed mean;

1. Ist
2. Einsatzbereit
3. Verfügbar

I now could also solve the riddle of the last column...(so stupid)....it is always the delta between 1st and 2nd column therefore meaning;

4.Nicht Einsatzbereit

I hope this clarifies all......

John

Re: Question about Lfl.6 stregth reports 1945
 

John, thank you!

Very interesting.

Kind regards,
Andrey

Re: Question about Lfl.6 strength reports 1945
 

See the attached for instructions on how to fill out a unit strength return. I don't know if these still applied in 1945 and under Luftflotte 6 of course.