JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

French Spitfire groups encounter JG53 on these dates claiming nine Bf109G,(as well as two Fw190 of another unit on the 24th December). Can anyone give me details of LW casualties?

The Bf109s were shot down at Rottweil, Pforzheim and Boblingen, the Fw190s fell at Freiburg-am-Breisgau.

regards

Keith

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Talking of Freiburg, if you can get there then I think file RL 2 III/71 would answer your question (it has fighter losses in the west from 24–31 December 1944). I don't have the answer myself but maybe someone here will.

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

24 Dec: 13./JG 53. Fw Erich Braitsch wounded Neustadt; Uffz Otto Jakob killed Dunningen

26 Dec: Maj Julius Meimberg w II./JG 53, Schaichhof. Oblt Leo Ludorf 6./JG 53 + Rutesheim. Gefr Adolf Meermann 6./JG 53 + Wimsheim. Gefr Heinz Ruland wounded 8./JG 53 Flacht. Oblt Adolf Gercke + 16./JG 53 + Gärtringen

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Spot on! Cheers Chris

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Could someone please tell me the identity of the French Spitfire units mentioned in the first post as having fought JG 53?

I've checked TNA but found no Combat Reports for December 1944 for any of the Free French RAF Squadrons and nothing in any of the ORBs noting combats for any of them on either 24 or 26 December 1944. I assume I've been barking up the wrong tree!

TIA!

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Steve,
GC II/7 = 326 Sqn (Dec 24), and GC I/7 = 328 Sqn (Dec 26).

Enjoy!

Frank.

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Thank you very much, Frank!

Turns out TNA doesn't have the December 1944 ORB for either of them and no Combat Reports for either as well.

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

In Dunnigen there was lost a Spitfire during that combat. Pilot kia

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Thanks, Rolfeb!

Might you know where I can find more info about these combats on 24 and 26 December 1944? I have Prien's JG 53 volumes and JFV 13/V.

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Hi SteveR,
About the 24th there are some more (6 pages) info in my book „Die Flugplätze im Schwarzwald-Baar-Kreis“ but the book is written in German only. It includes photographs of the pilots Otto Jakob, Erich Braitsch and Leutnant Jean Marie Doillon, who was shot down in his Spitfire. In addition it contains a copy of one page of Braitsch logbook showing his flights from Dec. 22nd until his his last flight at 24th. Based on this logbook he was shot down at 15:15 local time.
Best regards
Rolf

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Thanks Rolf!

German only isn't a problem, I'll start looking for your book.

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

StevenR:

There are four books in French by Daniel Decot which cover French post-Vichy operations in the Med, or Med-based:

Pilotes Français sur l'Afrique du Nord et la Corse, pub. 2000, 525 pages
Pilotes Français sur l'Italie, pub. 2005, 607 pages
Pilotes Français sur la vallée du Rhône, pub. 1982, 413 pages
Pilotes Français sur L'Alsace et L'Allemagne, pub. 1990, 701 pages

Italy is very hard to locate; the others can be found on AbeBooks. Not sure off hand which of Rhône or L'Alsace you want for this specific question.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Thank you, Frank!

Looking for both actually, as I have nothing on either (yet).

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

The Decot book describing these fights is "Pilotes Français sur L'Alsace et L'Allemagne, pub. 1990, 701 pages". 24 Dec is pages 218-221 (much details), 26 Dec pages 229-230 (not many details). But the book only shows the French point of view (and is in French).

The German book "Brennendes Land" by Fred Trendle also describes both battles, with less details from French side but by mixing French and German sources (I never noticed it before, but this book has no page numbers...).

By the way, neither book gives Doillon Spitfire's serial.

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Thank you very much, Laurent!

I'll be ordering at least a couple of the books mentioned in this thread early next week. I like to have both sides' point of view.

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Steve & Laurent,

Serial of the Spifire for DOILLON Jean, Marie, Simon (1911-1944)
is MJ176.

Bertrand

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Bertrand,
Can you confirm the unit of MJ176 when it was lost please? - GC II/7?
Thanks,
Andy

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Thanks Bertrand

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Yes. French archives; GC 2/7, 4ème escadrille.

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Bertrand

I can't find MJ176 listed anywhere as transferred to Armée de l'Air.
What are the sources for this in France besides French archives?
Does this source state the full ex RAF serial or just 176?
If Air Britain's MA100-MZ999 booklet is correct, it was last used by 602Sq and sent for repairs 21 Oct 1944 and after that no further trace.

Cheers
Stig

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

It is written MJ176 ; only two flights with GC 2/7 and the same day on 24/12. One test of 30' and the fatal flight with Doillon.

About the AM78 you know it is not the bible and there is information elsewhere. It is the case for this MJ176

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Excellent Bertrand. Thanks

Cheers
Stig

Re: JG53 casualties 24 and 26 December 1944.
 

Thanks also from me Bertrand.
There is also no record of Spitfire MJ176 serving with France in "Spitfire International"

„Die Flugplätze im Schwarzwald-Baar-Kreis“
 

Rolf, I have looked for this book but cannot find it. Does it contain details of Braitsch's or Uffz Otto Jakob's career? Both have basic details in the Kracker database but nothing more. My assumption is that Braitsch was the more experienced pilot.

best regards

Keith