20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Hi All

I am looking for any photos B-17 bomber from 20th Squadron.
I am very suprize because I cant find anything !!!!

I found photo 429 Squadron:
https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gall...group-15th-af/

I found photo 49 Squadron:
https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gall...-b-17-44-8020/

I found photo 96 Squadorn:
https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gall...b-17-2nd-bg-5/

But nowhere any photo 20 Squadron !!!!!
Does anybody have any photo B-17 from this squadron ?
Please help.

Janusz

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Hi Janusz,

check this site - it is about air battle 28.8.1944 - there is lot of photos of 20. BS/2nd BG lost this day:

http://www.leteckabitvakarpaty.cz/se...-letadla/usaf/

Example this plane

http://www.leteckabitvakarpaty.cz/se...usaf/letadlo2/

Faenor

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Thank you very much Feanor

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Jan. This is an interesting B-17G-25-DL 42-38066 MARISHKA from the 20BS; she was transferred to the 32BS/ 301BG at Lucera in Feb. 1945. She still has the 20BS yellow tail tip and 2 yellow horizontal bars , with the 301BG square Y and 32BS "1" in a white disc marked on top , typical mixed markings in the Fifteenth. The 2 bars were the 20th designator in Twelfth AF when the group marking was a plain white circle.
The photo was taken after Feb. 1945 hence the very faded paintwork. Also still has the radio room gun, usually deleted.
Regards
Nick

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Thanks Nick.Nice photo. Very interesting

I am waching now pictures of the B-17 from 2nd BG.
One thing is interesting for me. Please look at the three pictures of the begining this themme. Please look at the tail of this bombers. First one from 429 BS has probably red fin with white belt. Second one photo with 49 BS has also red thin but without any white belt !! The last one from 96 BS has tin probably in the same colour like rest of the plane !!!



On this site:
http://www.airpower.at/news03/0813_l...ark/15USAF.htm
is show the colour of the bombers thin. 2nd BG has show the black thin !!
Question is - this was black or red ?


Here you can also see thin of the bombers from 20 BS.
http://www.leteckabitvakarpaty.cz/se...saf/letadlo10/
In my opinion it is not black - probably red.



Regards
Janusz

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

This photo was taken on 2 Apr 44 (after mission to Steyr). Martin and Just WIA, O'Connor KIA.
Y in a square and 1 a circle were 2nd BG's markings March-April 1944, Y in a circle after that.
Zoran

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Thanks Zoran. I had read that the 2BG used a temporary square but wasn't sure; there was a B-17F 42-29604 THUNDERMUG in the 20BS until March 1944 with the Square Y and "1" designator which fits ( also a single yellow horizontal bar).The photo of MARISHKA says 2 April too and there is an ambulance in the original with the 20th's circle and 2 bars. I don't know why the 2BG would have a square as that was the 301st symbol. There is a later photo of 229604 with circle re-marked and a lot of missions on.
Jan, the 2nd later marking was an insignia blue rudder ( some say black) , the 429BS also had a white band on the rudder ( blue on white rudder on camouflaged planes).
This colour photo of a 2BG plane was taken at Kingman AZ post-war and I'm sure the rudder is Insignia Blue rather than black.


Nick

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Hi Nick
Great photo. Thanks. Of course you have right.
On the black-white photos red and blak on the tails are very similar.
From your photo I have 100% sure that the tail was black.
THANK YOU


Janusz

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Jan. I still think it's Insignia Blue not black; look how dark the star/bar is. Roger Freeman, Jerry Scutts and Ed Munday thought Blue.


Regarding the Square "Y" on 2BG planes in March-April it seems the 4 x B-17 groups were allocated it with groups identified by numbers 1--4 underneath ie. the 2nd. had "1" for the first group; 42-31473 MY BABY in a photo above had number "3" for the 99th, the third group in the Wing, before going to the 2BG. That would make sense but could be wrong.


Nick
.....................

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Hi. You're right (about both).
15th AF (and 5th BW) used Insignia Blue lettering in White symbols Mar-Apr 1944.
Example:
[Y] - denoting 5th BW, Insignia Blue on White
serial (Yellow on OD, Black on NM)
(1) - 2nd BG, (2) - 97th, (3) 99th, (4) 301st BG.
Exception: NM 42-97152 of 20th BS (shot down on 29 Mar 44 by ANR) had only black serial, no unit markings.
Later markings were Y in previous symbols, as You said.
But there were exceptions also, 2nd BG 44-8020 had only 'V' for squadron and no group markings, except dark (Blue, I guess) tail control surfaces.
Zoran

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Friends. On this site is show colours of the fins:


http://www.airpower.at/news03/0813_l...ark/15USAF.htm


2nd BG have black

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Quote from Steve Birdsall's B-17 Flying Fortress In Color:
The 2nd Bomb Group... ...wears Blue wing bands.
...rudder in alternating Olive Drab and Insignia Blue...
and ...White rudders and elevators applied to camouflaged aircraft in the 2nd Bomb Group.
...429th Squadron... ...has a White rudder with a Blue stripe, and White elevators.
Zoran

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Hi Zoran. regarding the last post...I think the narrow Olive Drab / Insignia Blue stripes ( outlined white) on this B-17G 42-31889 MAMMY YOKUM were individual markings but keeping the 20th's white band in the middle; the previous owner's ( 99BG diamond) symbol was painted out but still visible.
She had a Cheyenne tail turret retro-fitted. Camouflage was discontinued in the following block ( G-35-BO).
I hope you don't mind my comments here.
Nick

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

Hello guys, let me reopen this thread. What was the color of the stripes on the wings and rudder and elevators on the 2nd BG planes in NMF?
Some sources say all in black, some sources even blue rudder + elevator but stripes on the wings in black and in the book "B-17 Flying Fotress in Color" by Steve Birdsdall I read following:
- 2 feet wide blue stripes on all the machines (outlined by white on machines with camo)
- moving parts of the tail (rudder and elevator) in blue on the machines without camo and in white on the machines with camo


Many people say and believe it was black but what was the real color? Black or blue? Can anyone help?


Thank you

Re: 20th Bomb Squadron from 2nd Bomb Group (15USAAF)
 

The wing bands, rudders and elevators were black. The past weekend we had a 76th anniversary commemoration of the air battle from Aug. 29, 1944 and I used this chance to take a pic of the part of the wing in my friend's museum. The part of the wing comes from B-17G, S/N 44-6369 , 2BG, 20BS