Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

Those two photos were taken by an american soldier in March 1945 in the Remagen area.

The aircraft was shot down 10th March 1945.

Any Information about the aircraft, unit and fate of the Pilot?

Thanks for your help.

Infos to Uwe Benkel - mu.benkel@t-online.de

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

Shouldn't there have been some photos with your post, or a link?

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

I'm seeing 60662. Am I reading that right?

Ed

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

The numbering style points to Nachtschlachtgruppe 20. They flew in March night attacks on the Remagen bridge.

HTH

Best

Schlageter

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

I make the W.Nr. 160662 (the first digit is very faint), so it could be a G-3, of which NSGr. 20 still had some. As interesting though is that Ju 87, and a possible second one, under the trees in the background. You can just see the exhaust flame suppressor, so it's from either NSGr. 1 or 2 (if we definitely are in Western Germany). I can't see a wing cannon, so it should be a D-3. IIRC these units never shared a base with NSGr. 20 but that doesn't preclude an Fw 190 landing at one of their airfields od course.

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

III.KG51 ??

Rémi

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

Renamed NSGr. 20 in Autumn 1944.

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

:o

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

Hallo! Anybody here who knows the aircraft and the serialno. of the aircraft from Lt. Helmut Becker of 10./JG 2 and perhaps the exactly crashplace.
I have for his aircraft the following sn: 600662.
Dirk

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

WNr. 600662 belonged to a Fw 190 D-9

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

Hello Dirk,

there is no connection with the initially inquiry.
According to the Luftwaffe Kracker database Lt Helmut Becker was KIA on 12 March 1945. He was shot down by friendly AAfire, crashed at Kripp southeast of Remagen and was buried in Bodendorf. He flew the Fw 190 D-9 600662 black 18.

Regards
Leo

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

fliegerschicksal

I have Lt. Helmut Becker, 7./JG 2, KIA on 45-03-12 near Kripp (Germany)

Frans.A

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

Reviving an old thread … On 17 October 1944, the Ergänzungsstaffel (Nacht) of III./KG 51 reported "160896, 160384, 760622, change of wings in factory" (source: ULTRA CX/MSS/R341(A)53).

On 21 August, W.Nr. 160(fair indications 6)22 had been in strength with the same Staffel (CX/MSS/T287/103).

AFAIK, 760622 wasn't a valid Fw 190 Werk Nummer, so I strongly suspect it should have been 160622, the aircraft on the photo.

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

The information about 160896 is interesting and new to me. 10 years ago I was looking for information about this Fw 190 G-3 as I own the control stick of this aircraft which an American soldier had removed. The information I published in my book (which came mainly from Nick Beale, ULTRA) is in the following:

"(...) little is known about the history of this particular Fw 190. It was, however, mentioned in two British ULTRA reports. The first one dated August 11, 1944, reported that W.Nr. 160896 was taken into Ergänzungsstaffel (Nacht) I./SKG 10 at Vörden near Osnabrück. Shortly after its arrival I./SKG 10 was re-designated III./KG 51 and the Ergänzungsstaffel was similarly redesignated. The second ULTRA report dated October 14, 1944, stated that W.Nr. 160896 was removed from Ergänzungsstaffel (Nacht) III./KG 51 at Vörden. At the beginning of November 1944, Ergänzungsstaffel (Nacht) III./KG 51 was renamed 14./Schlachtgeschwader 151 (14./SG 151). Hence, ‘removed’ could very well mean that the aircraft was simply transferred to 14./SG 151. And indeed, the Bestandesmeldungen (inventory reports) state that all aircraft of Ergänzungsstaffel (Nacht) III./KG 51, namely one Fw 190 A-3, two Fw 190 A-4, one Fw 190 G-2, and four Fw 190 G-3 were taken off strength in October 1944, while the inventory of 14./SG 151 at the beginning of November 1944 consisted of exactly the same number and type of aircraft. (...)"

If the aircraft was sent back to the unit after it received new wings, it may be that the "correct" unit of 160662 was 14./SG 151.

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

Glad to be of help. I don't know if 14./SG 151 was ever active in the West, only that it operated against the Russians (from Berlin-Staaken) in 1945. I think (from memory) that it had been based at Schroda (Sroda, Poland) before Berlin and that it ended the war at Vaerlose, Denmark.

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

You are right. It may well be that 160896 did not return to 14./SG 151, but was sent to another unit. Possibly NSG 20 like 160662 (if it was indeed NSG 20).

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

Nick (Roger)

Without wishing to put any spanner in the wheels, I still want to know how written in stone the ID of WNr 160662 is?

Reason I ask is that I have only one production list of the Focke Wulf 190 G and that is in Smith/Creek Classic Fw 190 Vol 2 where of course 160662 is not listed. They have a rather unconvenient gap between 160650 and 160681!

Checking for alternatives, the only other aircraft ending with 60662 was a Fw 190 A-8 WNr 960662. I do realise it is far more probable that KG or NSGr were operating F/G models than late A models, but I do recall some units used mixed versions.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

Not absolutely written in stone but close. See the attached ULTRA messages:

In CX/MSS/T287/103 you will see an Fw 190 G-3, "160(C%6)22". The "(C%6)" means there are fair indications that the number is a "6". And there is a G-3 "1(B%6)0663" in the same list (B% = "strong indications").

In CX/MSS/R341(A), paragraph 53: the number is given as "760622", coming straight after two 160… series numbers. Easy to confuse a hand written, German "long-tailed" figure 1 with an uncrossed 7.

Taking those two sources together, I think that 160622 is the most likely Werk Nummer and the photo is further support.

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

The third G-3 batch from Sorau is running from 160601 up to 160700 - without gaps.

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

Thanks Nick

Yes I agree it is a good case and with Gerhard's input, it looks like 160662 is indeed the "culprit"

Thanks to you as well Gerhard

Very interesting update of these WNr. Will change my own list accordingly!!

Cheers
Stig

Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190 identity
 

After looking at the photo's I would say this aircraft wasn't shot down, but is abandoned at an airfield.

The horizontal stabilizer/elevator and rudder have been removed (tools required), the aircraft appears to have the landing gear extended (an odd circumstance for a shot down aircraft) and there is a Ju-87 sitting in the back ground.