Please help to identify this part
 

Hi All,

would like to identify this part of a Me 109.
Thanks a lot in advance

Rolf

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Yet another perfect example of how important including scale is in mystery part identification photographs. Is this item 3 cm or 30 cm?

Also: It is silly to post a single photograph of mystery a part without including a complete view of it, and a basic, fundamental description of it.

Bronc

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Dear Mr. Bronc,

thanks for your intellegent comment even it doesn't help at all.

First af all, there is a part number on the part which is quite vidsible. The part number is: R8-109.412-0101
. For the specialists in this Forum it is easy to identify. In Addition you can see some fingers at the part. So if the part would have a lenth of 30cm, how big the fingers must be? Giant fingers :)
Try to compare the fingers with the part and it can be max. 10 to 15cm, right?
Now, based on my Input it would nice to receive your qualified answer and thanks in advance

Rolf

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Please look at YOUR photo.

The post above is yet another example of how important including scale is in mystery part identification photographs. Are your invisible mystery fingers 3 cm or 30 cm?

Once again, it is silly to post a single photograph of a mystery part without including a complete view of it, and a basic, fundamental description of it.

Why would I bother opening my reference materials when you are too lazy and so discourteous that you cannot photograph and describe it properly?

Serious question. Why?

*** The purpose of this forum is Group Learning and Information Sharing. People who come to the forum merely to harvest information for their own selfish purposes are misusing the forum. ***

If you want a mystery part identified, (1) include scale, (2) take good photos of the complete item, and, (3) include a basic, fundamental description of it.

That way everyone can see and learn from the exercise.

Bronc

PS: I would like to say this item is a control linkage: either flap, aileron or elevator, or slat arm pivot linkage, but without 1-3 above, who knows...

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Ok Bronc,
fully understand.
Here some Information and a reason why I didnt posted all info I have. Main reason I didn't is, I'm not sure about the story.
Living not far from Donaueschingen where we had 2 airfields during WW II . For a short time of period, the fields werre the base for one group of JG 53 and the other for 2./NAG 13.
I tried to localize a crash site where - based on eye whitnesses the Pilot Walter Ullrich crashed in Nov. 44 and lost his live. Based on several infos he flew a 109 G-14 which usally was equipped with an DB 605. Now I found some relics and one of them is a small part of the engine where I can see a 9 digit number starting with a 601....
Now I'm confused as with my limited Knowledge I believe only the Messerschmitt versions E and F flew with a 601. See pic in seperate post. But again I'm even not sure if I'm right or wrong.
If I'm right that it was a E or F it never van be the Pilot Walter Ullrich and in addition I do not know a Crash with a E or F in the area of Donaueschingen.
Hope my info now helpes a bit and as soon I have Access again to the part I will take a pic of the complete part and measure it to give you all details. It is in the Garage of a friend of mine and he is in Easter vacation. No access yet until end of the week.
Now I'm not sure if this is a different crash and if so there must be another crash site where Ullrich crashed but couldn't find any person around who know anything from a second plane crash during WW II.

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

@ Bronc the tone of your answer i find quite counter productive. True, this board is for learning. So try to teach instead of barking. Even if it is the 100 time you have to tell someone how you think it has to be done.

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Hello Rolfeb,

The aircraft part that you found is from a Bf109 F (from F-1 to F-4, all have used this part), so the small part with the engine number 601 fits very nicely to this one.
The part with the number 109.412-0101 is a lever (Hebel) which is part of the "Zwischenhebel bei Rippe 2", part of the flight control in the left wing (Steuerung im Flügel links).

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Hi Tomislav, this is exiting and very interesting. Means I was searching for a crash site of a G-14 and found by coincidence a different one in same area. Thanks a lot for your support and happy to be almost sure now that I found a F and not the G-14. now the big question is, who was the pilot.
Thanks again, really appreciate your feedback.
Rolfeb

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Thanks Snautzer. Nothing to add. Thank you.
Rolf

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Hi Rolfeb. The mystery is not really solved yet. The part 109.412-0101 is also listed in the Bf109G Ersatzteilliste and so, can be from a later Bf109G. However, if you give the full 601 component number that you have, I can see where that fits into the situation for you. Cheers

SM

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Hi sm, thanks a lot for your feedback.
Here the details I can still read:
601 104-001 m
?205.4. VDM in a triangle V
?? 69 41 52
That’s all I can identify.
Would be great if this helps.
Thanks in advance
Rolf

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Hi Rolf. Have you got the complete part, this is the Crankcase! I have the reference for the 9-601.104-001 this is the Kurbelgehause (crankcase) for the DB601E motor and would possibly indicate a Bf109F3/4.
The number ?205.4 would be the material spec 3205.4 of the case and the VDM badge or trademark would show that it was cast at a VDM works.
I hope that is useful, a picture of the part would be interesting! Cheers :)

SM

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Indeed, we are all here to learn and for me, whose knowledge of aircraft parts is NIL, I have Always learned on this kind of threads.
Some of you are really experten on that field, so please do be patient with those who are not, specially regarding scales, how to post the pictures, etc.
Not very many of us did Aircraft Investigation Courses or are familiar with this kind of procedures, not are familiar with the GRADE system of radius to illustrate the main impact and a possible area of dispersing of fragments, etc...
Bronc, Tomislav (and other experts on aircraft parts) you are real aces on your fields...Thanks for sharing your knowledge and patience with the rest of us...
ROLF, am sure with time you will find the true story behind those pieces of Messerschmitt you do have on your hands...Be patient too...help will come...
MATTI and other members may have a list of crashes around your area....so...the information will come...you can also dig on the nearby graves if there are "fallen" Luftwaffe pilots nearby...
An amazing thread again on this Fantastic Site. Congratulations for all.
A.

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Thanks a lot so far for your answers.
Would like to come back to my initial point and recap so far.
1. I was searching for a crash site where I expected to find parts of a Me 109 G-14.
2. Found some relics, especially a part of a DB 601 which led to the discussion if the crashed plane was a 109 F and not a G-14.
If it was a version F, is it possible it flew still with III./JG 53 in Nov. 44?
Eye witnesses believe the crash took place in Nov. 44.
Is it possible the plane belonged to a different unit?, but flew in Nov. 44?

To my knowledge the version F flew only until end of 42, correct.
Thanks in advance
Rolf

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Hi Snautzer,
Thanks for sending. I organised the meeting in 2016. Sommer was pilot of the III./JG 53 in 44 and shot down in a dog fight.
The unit was based in Donaueschingen-Süd. But this is a different story/crash
Thanks again
Rolf

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Hi Snautzer,
Thanks for sending. I organised the meeting in 2016. Sommer was pilot of the III./JG 53 in 44 and shot down in a dog fight.
The unit was based in Donaueschingen-Süd. But this is a different story/crash
Thanks again
Rolf

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Hi Rolf. If the lever part and the Kurbelgehause part are from the same aircraft then it is pretty certain that it was Bf109F3 or F4 because the 601.104-001 part is a 601E component and that engine was fitted to that version of the 109 (and some early 109G prototypes). I believe that the 109F was still flying in the training role later in the war. Some specialists here will have information about that.
Any chance of a picture of the Kurbelgehause to enjoy? Cheers

SM

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Hi and thanks for your post.
Attached the part I found just a few days ago from the Kurbelgehäuse.
Cheers

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

And you made Broncs day, ruler and all :-]]

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

:D:D

Re: Please help to identify this part
 

Hi Rolf. Thank you very much for that picture! That is a very nice part of the Kurbelgehause to have as a relic. An important thing here is, that piece was part of the side of the Kurbelgehause- the main part of the engine and immensely strong! To be shattered into such a small part likely indicates that the impact was very energetic, at high speed! The cast numbers at the bottom line, ?? 69 41 52 are a casting code. They will indicate which location and sequence number that this component was cast. From the original company files, it would originally have been possible to identify the date etc. This is not the engine Werk Nummer. The batch of castings will have been machined and finished, then taken to the engine assembly plant and only when processed as an engine on build, the Werk Nummer will have been allocated to the Kurbelgehause and stamped onto the points where the Werk Nummer was applied as a stamped number. The other components of the engine were also stamped as they were allocated to the build of a particular engine. Cheers

SM