Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Hi all,

I have posted this in a few groups on Facebook, the reason being someone else posted the photo as he had just bought it....however that forced me to find it mine as I have had it 20 years or more and came with a Soldbuch to a fallen Beobachter.....the aircraft of course is not his.

On the reverse, I think it says:

"Ju 52 vom ruß.(ische) jäger im Brand geschossen. Bolzi"

Trying to work out if Bolzi (Bolsi?) is the place name....as I can't identify the unit the aircraft belonged to at the moment....

Thanks,
Ian

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Bolzi is the place name. And that is some highly stylized handwriting.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Thanks for confirmation....But...where is it on a map :D:confused:


Will check Larry's airfield docs.....

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

That will be the hard part. The location may have been a tiny farm village at the time. Place names sometimes changed and sometimes place names were Germanicized. Gdańsk in Poland was Danzig for Germans.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Danzig was always Danzig to the Germans, as it was 98% ethnically German pre-war. Gdansk is a postwar, post ethnic-cleansing creation.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Maybe because it's Abol'tsy (Abolcy), 42km Northwest of Orcha in Bielorussia. (Obolzy in one loss report but doesn't concern your plane).
Not necessarily in Larry's airfield doc.
1/ Because no one said it was an airbase
2/ because there is no airfield doc for Russia in Larry's huge work!.. Which is a good reason to not find it.


Regards,
Franck.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Another possibility would be that the name of the place was written by ear. What about "Goltzy" in Belarus?

Regards
Rasmussen

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Thank you for bringing up another good possibility.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

I suggest looking at maps in Polish. Parts of Gdansk had to be rebuilt post-war, but it has been there for a very long time.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Danzig has a very long German - Polish history ... from the Slavs in the 11th century, the German Crusaders in 13th and 14th century, as free town republic under Polish rule in 14th - 17th century, Prussian rule in 17th - 19th century (with 6 years as free town republic under Napoleonic rule), as Free town from 1920 - 1939 with 95% Germans, 3 % Polish and 2 % Kashub... and the known history since WW2.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Thanks all.....these are the only Ju 52 with +MT and locations that I can find

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

hello

can't it just be the photographer's name?!
for example ...

regards
ghostwriter

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

That is the best answer so far. Such a name may be Italian or Swiss.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

IAN,

I can not see snow or a typical winter sky on the photograph...on the contrary...a bright sky (sun) and it seems to be summer, wherever the place is on the Russian Front.

So we can probably rule out those losses you posted, on winter (December, January); what do you think?

With a shorter list, maybe you or another helper can track down the crews and fate of the machine (on those LW losses list).

Apparently (watching the Picture, some crewmembers may have survived the crash landing).

A. Baumgartner

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

The name of the photographer crossed my mind as did locations.....it may or may not be a makeshift airfield and it may not have been shot down but shot up on the ground.......many options.....we may never know.....


Thanks all for input :)
Ian

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Dear IAN,

Just found a guy named PIETRO BOLZI (4° Reggimento Genio Pontieri) here: www.piacenzaprimogenita150.it/getFile.php?id=877

Maybe the 11/04/1943 did have some Italians on board?

Adriano Baumgartner

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

But I should have read before...WW1...my mistake...

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

"...…."Ju 52 vom ruß.(ische) jäger im Brand geschossen. Bolzi"

Hi Ian -

It could be SolzySolzi - there were two Ju 52 units there in August and September 1941 - these are in BOLD below:

Solzy (RUSS) (a.k.a. Soltsy, Solzi) (ZNr. 10-1304) (c. 58 08 08 N – 30 19 47 E) ((AFHRA)
General: operational airfield (E-Hafen) in NW Russia 36 km N of Dno, 36 km W of Lake Ilmen and 2.3 km NE of Soltsy town center. History: a permanent prewar Soviet base for long range bombers. Surface and Dimensions: natural surface measuring approx. 3000 x 2400 meters (3280 x 2625 yards) from boundary-to-boundary. According to Russian sources, the runway(s) were still under construction on 22 June 1941. Infrastructure: see below under Remarks. Dispersal: see below under Remarks. Defenses: no details found.
Remarks:
Jan 41: Soviet 2 BAP here.
22 Jun 41: Soviet 7 TBAP (TB-3 bombers) based here.
14 Jul 41: Soltsy captured by German troops advancing toward Leningrad and Novgorod, retaken by the Russians on 17 July and then recaptured by the Germans on 22 July.
29 Aug 41: attacked by Pe-2s and Il-2s with an escort of MiG-3s - results not stated.
2 Oct 42: bombed – 1 x Fw 189 A-2 from 1.(H)/Aufkl.Gr. 31 damaged on the ground.
4 Oct 42: air attack – III./St.G. 77 reported 6 ground personnel KIA during a Russian air raid on the field and 7 more WIA.
30 Oct 42: bombed – 1 x Hs 126 B-1 from 1.(H)/Aufkl.Gr. 13 (or 31?) damaged on the ground.
15 Mar 43: bombed – 1 x Ar 66 belonging to 2/Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 destroyed on the ground.
21 Feb 44: Soltsy liberated by Soviet forces.
9 Mar 44: aerial photo taken - snow-covered and no aircraft present.
13 May 44: a Luftwaffe aerial photo taken this date by 3.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 22 shows an irregular-shaped airfield with a landing area measuring 1800 x 970 meters (1970 x 1060 yards). There were two separate permanent runways (paved?) that were at right angles to each other, one 1200 meters (1310 yards) in length and aligned SW/NE, the other 1100 meters (1205 yards) in length and aligned NW/SE. The runways were not concrete, but rather tarmacadam (tarmac) or perhaps gravel with heavy oil poured on top and then rolled. The ends of both runways were connected to the hangar/workshop area by taxiways, part of which were paved. The buildings were in a group 1 km N of the Shelon River and included 3 hangars, 10 workshops and operations buildings, and roughly 100 technical services, support and barrack buildings. The airfield was served by a rail spur with a siding. Aircraft parked in at least 75 shrapnel-proof open shelters and hardstands that were around the runways and along the W boundary. All of the infrastructure had been demolished by the retreating Germans and part of the landing area plowed up. No Soviet aircraft were seen here on this date.
Operational Units: Stab/JG 27 (Aug 41); III./JG 27 (Aug 41); II./JG 52 (Aug 41); IV./KG z.b.V. 1 (Aug-Sep 41); Transportstaffel VIII. Fliegerkorps (Aug-Sep 41); 1.(H)/Aufkl.Gr. 13 (Jan-Nov 42); 4.(H)/Aufkl.Gr. 23 (Jan-Mar 42); III./JG 3 (Feb-Apr 42); Stab/NAGr. 11 (Apr 42 – c. Oct 43); 15.(kroat.)/KG 53 (Jul 42); III./St.G. 77 (Sep-Oct 42); II./JG 3 (Sep-Nov 42); 1.(H)/Aufkl.Gr. 31 (Sep 42 – c. Feb 43); Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 1 (Oct 42 – Mar 43); Nahaufkl.St. 11./13 (Nov 42 – Oct 43).
Station Commands: Fl.H.Kdtr. E 3/XI (1942-43).
Station Units (on various dates – not complete): part of I/Feldwerftverband 60 (Jan-Dec 42); Res.Flak-Abt. 323 (Aug 41); elements of le.Res.Flak-Abt. 994 (c.Feb-Oct 42); 3.(Fern.Verb.)/Ln.-Betr.Abt. (mot) z.b.V. 10 (Oct 42); Ln.-Betr.Kp. (mot)/NAGr. 11 (Nov 42); Lw.-Bau-Stamm-Abt. 4 (Nov 41, Feb 42); Lw.-Bau-Gerätezug 6/XI (May 42 - ? ).
[Sources: chronologies; AFHRA, BA-MA; NARA incl. T-321 roll 239/OKL 903; OKL Flugplatzatlas d. Sowjetunion; PRO/NA; web site ww2.dk; NARA Aerial Photographs at College Park/MD (9.3.44, 13.5.44)]

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Thank you Larry. This is the problem with Russian/Slavic place names.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Thanks gents,

Dénes Bernád contacted me:

"Belzi, in other words Bâlti. I published this photo in "From Barbarossa to Odessa", by Midland Publ, Vol. 1."

I do not have this book unfortunately.

/Ian

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

So...Bălți is a city in Moldova......what country was that in during WWII?

Was it Moldova, Romania, Ukraine or Bessarabia (USSR)?

/Ian

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

So...checking Larry's fine works on Airfields.....

1. For the purpose of this reference work, “Romania” generally means the territory that was located within the boundaries of Romania immediately following the so-called Vienna Award of 30 August 1940 whereby Romania, acting under Axis pressure, ceded the majority of Transylvania to Hungary. The list does include Moldavia but does not include the airfields in Bessarabia and Bukovina, which were seized by Russia in 1918:
1.1 Moldavia (Moldova, Moldau): a pre-war Romanian province bordered on the east by the Prut (Pruth) River.
1.2 Bessarabia, a province of Romania since 1918-19, seized by Russia on 27 June 1940 and not recovered by Romania until June 1941. These airfields are listed with Russia.
:
:
:
Balti (UKR/BESSARBIA): see Russia and Ukraine Airfields.

/Ian

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

I wonder if this could be the aircraft?

23/03/1944 - 10./TG 2 - Balti - Kamenez-Podolsk - Erdbeschuß - Ju 52 /3m

Anyone got a copy of "From Barbarossa to Odessa" Vol. 1.?

/Ian

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Not exactly Summer.


I have better:
21/07/1941 KGr.zbV 104; Balti; Feindbeschuß; Ju 52/3m WNr.2996, Bruch 100%. Crew unknown. With thanks to Michael Balss.

Regards,
Franck.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Cheers Franck,


It looks like that could be the one!!


/Ian

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Since everyone is pretty certain the first letter is a "B" rather than an "S", then I guess "Balti" is the one. There were 10 airfields, field airstrips and landing grounds around Balti by late fall 1944, but the one below was the one being used by the Luftwaffe in summer 1941:

Balti (RUSS/UKR) (a.k.a. Bălţi, Beltsy) (47 45 15 N – 27 55 05 E)
General: small city in north-central Bessarbia (today Moldova) 255 km NW of Odessa, 160 km ESE of Chernivtsi (Tschernowitz, Cernăuţi) and 71 km NNE of Iaşi/Romania.

Balti III (RUSS/UKR) (a.k.a. Balti/Ost, Balti/East, Bălţi, Beltsy) (ZNr. 10-1380) (c. 47 46 25 N – 27 57 38 E)
General: field airstrip (Feldflugplatz) 255 km NW of Odessa, 71 km NNE of Iaşi/Romania and 3.85 km NE of Balti city center. Rated for fighters, dive-bombers and other single-engine aircraft. History: existed pre-June 1941 and was/is considered the most important of the airfields around Balti during World War II, almost certainly because of the aircraft repair shops and assembly buildings adjacent to the airfield. Surface and Dimensions: firm grass surface on clay subsoil with the S end somewhat marshy. Measured approx. 1000 x 1000 meters in 1941 and Dec 43 and then enlarged to 1360 x 1300 meters (1485 x 1420 yards) in 1944. Infrastructure: no infrastructure in 1941, Dec 43 or Jul 44. It used the infrastructure available at the adjacent repair and assembly site as well as civilian buildings along the W boundary. Dispersal: there were 41 splinter-proof aircraft shelters by 3 Jul 44, according to aerial photos. Defenses: there were 6 Flak positions on 3 Jul 44, each with 2 to 6 guns.
Remarks:
22 Jun 41: Soviet VVS 55 IAP based here. Balti airfields attacked by III./KG 27 and other elements of IV. Fliegerkorps – claimed 40 Russian aircraft destroyed on the ground and hits scored on motor vehicles, barracks. Tent camps as well as 2 fuel dumps.
23 Jun 41: Balti I bombed by III./KG 27 – claimed 15 to 20 aircraft destroyed on the ground.
7-9 Jul 41: Balti captured by 3 Romanian infantry divisions (5, 13 and 14) and now in Axis hands. The airfields were said by them to be in terrible condition and situated on very marshy and wet terrain.
14 Jul 41: bombed by Soviet 45 SBAP and 146 IAP – claimed 12 Axis aircraft destroyed on the ground and violent fires started.
21 Jul 41: Balti/Ost attacked by fighters from 55 IAP and then by 8 x “DB-3s” – 11 x Ju 87s from St.G. 77 and 2 x Bf 109s from III./JG 77 damaged on the ground, plus 1 x Ju 52 assigned to JG 77 destroyed.
23 Jul 41: strafed again by 55 IAP – claimed 13 Axis planes left burning on the ground.
[Sources: chronologies; AFHRA, BA-MA (incl. RL 9/70); NARA incl. T-321 roll 239/OKL 903; OKL Flugplatzatlas; PRO/NA; Bernád, Dénes, Dmitriy Karlenko and Jean-Louis Roba - From Barbarossa to Odessa – The Luftwaffe and Axis Allies Strike South-East: June-October 1941, Hinckley (U.K.): Ian Allan/Midland Publishing, 2008. ISBN: (10) 1 85780 273 X web site ww2.dk; NARA Aerial Photographs at College Park/MD (27.6.44, 3.7.44)]

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Thanks Larry,

That coincides with the info that Franck posted for 21.7.1941....Dénes confirmed the photo was taken summer 1941.

So...that means the guy this photo belonged to was with 13/K.G. z.b.V. 1 at the time...

/Ian

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Larry and Franck,

Does someone do have the codes for that werknummer 2996 ?

Maybe this is indeed the machine quoted by De Zeng "plus 1 x Ju 52 assigned to JG 77 destroyed" that you matched the werknummer and unit (KGr.zbV 104), Franck...

Amazing thread indeed...

Did Denès Bernard identifyed the machine and unit on his published book ? Denès, can you give us a glimpse of what you wrote for that particular action or picture ?

Congratulations Ian...amazing thread.

A. Baumgartner

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Adriano,

Denès will contact me later with the info....

/Ian

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

I don't have any codes for the aircraft unfortunately.....

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Hello,

in the primary source Gen.Qu. loss return 15 August 1941 item 25 is listed:
21.7. K.Gr.z.b.V. 104 Feindflug, Ort: Balti, Ursache: Feindbeschuss, Ju 52 2996 100%.
In the Bundesarchiv Freiburg version of the loss return the loss category 5 is handwritten added = destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, not observed by enemy / Totalverlust ohne Feindbeobachtung durch Bordwaffenbeschuss auf Feindflug.
According to "ju52archiv.de" the Stammkennzeichen was NO+HG.

Regards
Leo

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

IAN,

There are some real experts here (I remember a similar thread that one used Google images and geographical details to do so) that maybe can check the geographic area in question.

One can see on the background of the Ju 52, some cliffs in the distance...and the vegetation seems to be dry and of low kind...

I still would have a glimpse on the Trapani loss...maybe someone can try to find the crewmembers and more detail....for me, the weather, climate, geographical details and perhaps the BOLZI (Italian) name points in that direction....

Could be Bolzi an Italian Officer on board of the Trapani lost machine ?

Adriano

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

IAN,

Did a bit of "touristic" tour, and the mountainous area surrounding WILNA do seems more appropriate here with the background of your picture: http://www.garnek.pl/emzet/10531431/...wzgorza-trzech

Trapani is more mountainous than Wilna area...

A.B.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Wow wow wow...
Wait a minute.... I did accept "Balti" and it happens that in lost list there is this machine (without code unfortunately) destroyed during July, i.e. in Summer.
BUT, for me, it's just a "maybe", nothing more.
Too much speculation on name at this point leading to one loss matching with the guessed name.
I think it's too much to be sure.


regards,
Franck.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Yes , and the Ju52 has a Barbarossa Yellow band around the fuselage behind the black cross. exit Trapani.

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Franck, am not making conclusions...I am suggesting further researches, nothing more...am not specialist neither on LW, neither on Ju 52 or those two areas of Europe (Geographical details, etc.).

However I can see, like you, what is on the picture:
1- This is NOT winter so we can rule out from Ian's researches the two losses on winter (December and January)
2- There are some cliffs or low cliffs on the left side of the picture which does matches the surrounding (panorama) of Wilna and not Trapani area as I thought before wrongly;
3 - The BAND on the fuselage indeed seems to be YELLOW (pointing to the Eastern Front) rather White (Mediterranean Front);
4- We found some persons named Bolzi in Italy...(could lead towards the Trapani loss);
5- The machine do have the Flaps down...do not know if it was standard to raise them after landing or not...maybe the flyers used to let them down, ready for a quick take-off (some still do that);
6- Crew seems to have had time to evacuate (and one do not see strikes near the rear gunner place);
7- The plane seems to have bogged down or finished its course on some kind of geographical degree (near the bushes in the front)...or the landing gears collapsed. What do you think guys? Anyway...was it pushed there (if it was an air-to-ground strike by Russian planes)?
8 - the machine is coded ?? + MT as shown on the photograph...and IAN found some of the Ju 52 losses with the codes ending + MT....are there more??? or just those found by Ian??

Am just trying to open new roads...as I said, am not a specialist.


Adriano

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

I feel here comes an argument so I stop to post in this thread ...

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Franck I do apologize if I wrote something wrong previously. I did not wanted to be rude or offend anyone here. English nor French are my natural languages, so we tend to think in one's natural one and write (translating) in English. For me particularly it is not a 100% process and I know I do mistakes.

I just pointed some ideas (speculations maybe) onto the thread.

We do not have the first two letters of the code, neither another clue (crewmember's name behind the Picture), neither a date...behind the Picture.

I feel the positive ID is near close to be found...so all elements of the shown Picture could (or should) be checked and maybe could also be discarded...with evidences.

Guess that from the list Ian submitted we do all agree that the December and January losses can be discarded since we do not see snow on the Picture. So, we do have (from his list of machines coded +MT) some 2-3 possible candidates.

Of course, we (I surely don't) know if other machines coded +MT were eventually recorded lost. Regarding "Balti", guess it opened another "road" or field of research, since that machine was not previously recorded onto Ian's list...guess we agreed on that. I wrote "maybe this could be this machine"...I did not jumped conclusions either. You pointed the Yellow Band, so discarding the Trapani machine...so from Ian's list, only two possible candidates now.

Again, if I wrote something that may have sounded personel, please do discard that option. I have nothing against you or no one else on this Fórum and will keep that way.

We all will be very pleased to count on you on the Board and, eventually helping or suggesting new ideas or roads onto this particular thread.

If you want to contact me off board to point out or Exchange ideas, or to inform where I wrote something wrong or maybe offensive into this thread, please let's clear it, ok? Am here to learn, to make friends (have made quite some) and help in my very limitated field of action.

Most sincerely yours,
Adriano S. Baumgartner

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

Where you read "...are my natural languages..." understand: "...are NOT..."

Re: Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?
 

I just tackled the photo with special magnifying equipment and get: G6+MT repeat G6+MT. KGr. z.b.V. 2, 101, 102, 104, 105 and TG 4 all operated Ju 52s coded "G6+M_". Of nearly 200 listed in the Barry Rosch Luftwaffe Codes, Markings and Units 1939-1945 (Schiffer, 1995) book, pages 31-32, he has an +MQ, +MH, +MP, +MR, +MS, +MT, +MU. The G6+MT was a Ju 52/3m and belonged to KGr. z.b.V. 104. Note: nearly all of the code examples given in the Rosch book come from the Gen.Qu. loss reports. During the June - September 1941 period, KGr. z.b.V. 104 was assigned to and operated under Dt.Lw.Mission in Rumänien (DLM) and was variously based at Bucharest and Târgsorul Nou with its Staffeln and individual aircraft operating in and out of numerous other airfields in Bessarabia and eastward to Odessa, Nikolayev and Chaplinka.

I'm not an aircraft person, but maybe this might help some of you who are.

L.