Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

Hello all

According of many sources (T.Wood,net,.....)

(78.) 06/09/43=B-17 (3 km. W Mailly-le-camp) 12h.10
(79.) 06/09/43=B-17 (6 km W.Troyes) 12h.17...7 mn LATER
(80.) 06/09/43=B-17 (LENS) 12h.29....12 mn LATER

For his 80th claim,the place and the time,it's IMPOSSIBLE.
LENS (north of france) being distant of 300km...and do it in 12.mn!!!!

Does anyone have an idea about this nonsense??

Michel

Re: Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

Hello Michel,

in JFV Vol. 10/IV the following claims of Major Egon Mayer of Stab/JG 2 are listed:
6 Sep 1943
77 B-17 12.10 3 km west of Mailly-le-Camp
78 B-17 12.17 7 km west of Troyes
79 B-17 12.29 Sens. Sens is not far from Troyes.
22 Sep 1943
80 Spitfire 17.17 east of Lisieux
81 Spitfire 17.20 east of Lisieux.

Regards
Leo

Re: Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

Ah!!!it makes more sense!! that's the idea I had!
Thank you very much Leo.

B Regards
Michel

Re: Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

is that him?
http://www.aircrewremembered.com/Kra.../?q=Mayer+Egon

because "Mayer" is a common name in germany ...

best regards
ghost

Re: Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

Egon Mayer is well known and it is him

Re: Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

i'm sorry for asking ...
thought the link rounds off the thread?

greetings
ghost

Re: Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

Hello all

I studied the new facts:there remains a problem
If we base ourselves on the affirmations of J.Prien:
(79.) "abschus" ,(80.)?? for other sources:place SENS 12h.35

However no B-17 crashed in the area of SENS
the closest crash are:
42-30000 92°BGroup,place "Estissac" 40 km of SENS
42-30203 388°BGroup,place "Coudray" 68 km of SENS
The distances beeing too important,this one seems UNFOUNDED.

NOW THERE IS THE "HIC"
According to all other sources:
(80.) "Abschus" LENS" 12h.35 (the hour poses problem?,false hour??)
42-5763 91°BGroup crash MONS-EN-Pévèle....15 km of LENS

NO OTHER CLAIMANT THAN MAYER IN THE LENS REGION!so FOUNDED!

So not SIMPLE:

michel

Re: Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

I have not the time to check the accuracy of the webpage below, but it says this B-17 42-5763 was shot down by Ofw Walter Ebert of 10./JG 2.
http://faucheursdemarguerites.org/wp...-en-pevele.pdf


Linking B-17 claims to actual losses is hard due to the ability of the US heavy bombers to fly a long time after having been heavily hit.

Re: Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

Hello Michel,

the B-17 42-3293 of 388th BG, 560th BS crashed at La Chapelle-Champigny northwest of Sens (MACR 3113, German casualty no. KU 158). Five dead members of the crew were buried on the Community Cemetery of Sens in a group grave (report A.V. 267/43).

Regards
Leo

Re: Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

Laurent

I don't agree with the site of "les faucheurs de marguerites"
The victims of Walter Ebert are:
First victim:B-17 "10 km S.Villeneuve" 12h.25 ,it's "Villeneuve-l'archeveque (40 km of Troyes),it' the B-17 42-30000 (92° B.Group) crashed "Estissac" (20km of Troyes),shared with Harald Ottendorfer (his claim:12h.15 "Estissac" S.W Troyes),Egon Mayer (his claim:12h.17 "6 KM W. Troyes),Hugo Dahmer (his claim:12h.20 "Villeneuve".

Second victim:B-17 "2955/04 OST" 12h.35 ,according to the map "GRADNETZ",this correspond to the sud of Paris.
It's the B-17 42-30203 (388°B.Group) crashed "Coudray" in the Loiret.

Mons-en-Pévèle is in Quadrat 21../05 OST

Leo

Exact,the first victim of Mayer is the 42-3293 (388°B.Group) claimed 3 km W.Mailly-le camp. 12h.10
The B-17 crashed to "La Chapelle-Champigny"(16km of SENS and 80 km of Mailly le camp).

I don't have any answers for his 3rd claim (SENS 12h.29) if it's really SENS?

Michel

Re: Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

Hi Guys

Something that might interest you.

There is a sub mikrofilm for Stabst./JG2 that matches the main daily microfilm, it lists only time and date, no pilots name/altitude/type e.t.c, the times all match the daily microfilm. However the main microfilm for January 1944 is missing, there is a sub one listing all details for A.S.M claims, but the microfilm with time and date exists, there is one claim that I have no name for 5th January 1944 1100 hrs, only two pilots were claiming at that time Mayer and Rudolf Alf, as Mayer claimed ten for each of Alf's it should really be his, but cannot prove it, this also assumes that Alf was Mayer's wingman and only pilot flying each time, other possible candidate that I can find is Friedrich Edelmann.

As JG2 is known for overclaiming, and Mayer had problems with the ego-eccentric over-claimer Josef Wurmheller, I am guessing but if not personal then perhaps Mayer suspected Wurmheller was overclaiming, yet even the worst units had truelly honest guys, question is how do Mayer's claims match-up to Allied losses?


Kind Regards


Johannes

Re: Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

Hi Johannes

Concerning Wurmheller who has the reputation(rightly so) of a fictitious claimant,perhaps dishonest,with the exeption of some days of "wacky" claims against B-17 (as 16/04,17/05,29/05 also valid for the others protagonists involved),his claims in 1943 are for the most part justified.Why? 1943

Some ex:

16/02=2 claims..justified
01/05=1 claim....justified
28/06=1 claim....justified
03/08=1 claim....justified
16/08=1 claim....justified
22/08=1 claim....justified
27/08=1 claim....justified
02/09=1 claim....justified
03/09=2 claims..justified
15/09=1 claim....justified

Out of 19 claims in 1943, 12 are justified (100%),3/4 others shared ...not
bad for a decried.
We saw worse!

According to me,for Mayer,2 are founded (including 1 shared).

Best Regards
Michel

Re: Egon Mayer:his 80th claim on 06/09/43
 

Hi Michel

Thanks for the Mayer/Wurmheller assessment. Only reasons I can think of for a sudden period of honesty for Wurmheller are influence by Mayer who would appear to have been onto him, or Wurmheller becoming more responsible as a Staffelkapitan, if he reverts to overclaiming after Mayer's death, and under Buhligen's leadership, then the former seems more likely.


I have for sometime thought the honesty of a Geschwader was due to it's leader, Max Stotz seems only to overclaim under Hans Hahn's short leadership.


Also I was wondering who was the first person to verify a Gruppenkommandeur's/Kommodore's claim, there is no obvious due benefiter when Nowotny become Kommandeur!


Best Regards


Johannes