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-   -   Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=54343)

Dan History 8th July 2019 17:13

Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
Mr. Walpole, who is involved in commemorating the dead of the Second World War and hasn't yet joined this forum, has asked for help regarding a Luftwaffe attack on 11 December 1940. The Luftwaffe attacked Birmingham on the night of 11/12 December and two sisters were killed by a bomb in Coleshill, Warwickshire. This location is just to the east of Birmingham and north of Birmingham airport, which was then RAF Elmdon.

Mr. Walpole would be grateful for any assistance in identifying the Luftwaffe unit which may have been involved in this incident. I understand that this may prove a very difficult question, so may I ask members where the most detailed account of the Luftwaffe's attack on Birmingham that night is to be found? Chris, this may be one for you :)

Kind regards,

Dan

Chris Goss 8th July 2019 17:22

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
KG 1, KG 77, I, II & III./KG 26, , II & III./LG 1, I, II & III./KG 27, KGr 126, KGr 100, KGr 606, I, II & III./KG 51, KGr 806, Stab & III./KG 55, KG 2........for starters. However, I have a note that KGr 126 reported hitting Elmdon (0010-0135 hrs)

Dan History 8th July 2019 17:56

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Goss (Post 271522)
KG 1, KG 77, I, II & III./KG 26, , II & III./LG 1, I, II & III./KG 27, KGr 126, KGr 100, KGr 606, I, II & III./KG 51, KGr 806, Stab & III./KG 55, KG 2........for starters. However, I have a note that KGr 126 reported hitting Elmdon (0010-0135 hrs)

Thank you, Chris. Do you have any other notes about attacks on Elmdon or the surrounding area during this raid? Do I remember correctly that German time was one hour ahead of British Summer Time in December 1940?

Kind regards,

Dan

Nick Beale 8th July 2019 18:07

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
1 Attachment(s)
The Ob.d.L. sitrep on the attack is online at: http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/d...inspect/zoom/5

(image of page attached)

Chris Goss 8th July 2019 19:23

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
I have nothing more apart from aircraft numbers and what they reported which is not much in the way of specifics

RudiS 8th July 2019 20:29

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
I & II./KG54 were also involved in that attack. No further info I'm afraid.

Dan History 8th July 2019 23:48

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
Nick, Chris and Rudi, thank you very much for your responses. Nick, I was aware of the Lagemeldungen and it's great that you dug out the relevant page from Germandocs. The problem is that this is a very general overview of the raid, of course. Chris, may I ask where you get the more specific information that you have? It might not necessarily help answer Mr. Walpole's question, but it could be useful as a more specific reference than the Lagemeldung.

Kind regards,

Dan

Col Bruggy 9th July 2019 03:54

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
Dan,

A book you should consider consulting (I don't have a copy, as yet):

The Luftwaffe Over Brom - Birmingham's Blitz from a Military Perspective.

http://birminghamair-raids.co.uk

Col.

Chris Goss 9th July 2019 07:37

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
Steve has just updated & revised this book. My info comes from the Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung which I used in my book

Nick Beale 9th July 2019 10:01

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
2 Attachment(s)
And here's all the ULTRA I've found which mentions the raid.

Dan History 10th July 2019 19:56

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
Gentlemen, your assistance is excellent!

Col, I did not know about that book, thank you. Here it is on Amazon:
The Luftwaffe Over Brum: Birmingham's Blitz from a Military Perspective https://www.amazon.co.uk/Luftwaffe-O...dp/0956370837/

Chris, thank you for telling me an update to that book is forthcoming and for mentioning the Einzelmeldung. Did you get a copy at Freiburg? For the benefit of Mr. Walpole, who is reading this thread, here is your book on Amazon:
The Luftwaffe's Blitz: The Inside Story November 1940-May 1941 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0859791483/

Nick, the codenames reported by ULTRA are most interesting. I did not expect that the surnames of Nazi leaders would have been used. May I ask whether this is from HW 5? My understanding of the specifics of the various ULTRA file series is relatively unsophisticated.

Kind regards,

Dan

Nick Beale 10th July 2019 21:57

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan History (Post 271599)
Nick, the codenames reported by ULTRA are most interesting. I did not expect that the surnames of Nazi leaders would have been used.

Those are British substitutions for the original German codenames which were all major rivers. The change was made to avoid giving the Germans a "crib" to break into British codes. The instruction for this was issued on 19 November:
CX/JQ/463
NAVIGATIONAL BEAMS
IMPORTANT NOTICE

2. As from 0001/20/11/40 source CX/JQ will not refer to river type beams by their original names, but will use the following code-words:
WESER = HITLER
SPREE = GOERING
RHEIN = RIBBENTROP
ELBE = HIMMLER
DONAU = QUISLING
ODER = SCHIRACH
ISAR = HESS
What had been known colloquially as "river beams" now became "Ruffians".

Quote:

May I ask whether this is from HW 5?
TNA HW 5/7.

Bombphoon 11th July 2019 17:31

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Beale (Post 271550)
And here's all the ULTRa I've found which mentions the raid.

Hi Nick - Do you have the Ultra mentioning the raid on Leicester on 19/20.11.1940 please? Much appreciated.

Nick Beale 11th July 2019 18:17

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bombphoon (Post 271637)
Hi Nick - Do you have the Ultra mentioning the raid on Leicester on 19/20.11.1940 please? Much appreciated.

The attached from CX/JQ/465 (from TNA HW 5/6) may be relevant but after a quick look nothing else stands out.

Chris Goss 11th July 2019 18:17

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
I have the Luftflotte 3 reports-just I./LG 1 and I./KG 54 involved. III./KG 27 attacked Leicester 20-21 Nov 40 as well

Dan History 11th July 2019 23:15

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Beale (Post 271607)
Those are British substitutions for the original German codenames which were all major rivers. The change was made to avoid giving the Germans a "crib" to break into British codes. The instruction for this was issued on 19 November

TNA HW 5/7.

Nick, thank you very much :) Now everything is clear.

Bombphoon 12th July 2019 02:24

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
Thank you Chris and Nick, appreciated.

Nick - I take it WESER and SPREE are the beam transmitters?

Nick Beale 12th July 2019 08:17

Re: Luftwaffe in Birmingham area on 11 December 1940
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bombphoon (Post 271663)
Thank you Chris and Nick, appreciated.

Nick - I take it WESER and SPREE are the beam transmitters?

Yes. See post #12 above, also the article “KGr. 100 and the Coventry Blitz” on my website.


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