Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Hello dear friends,

can anybody provide me with the names of KIA Crew in plane model Ju 88 from
5th Nov. 1944, crashed in Sexten, near Innichen in South Tyrol.
Downed by Lt. Warren Lockwood, 52 FG, 5th FS.
Do you know the unit of this Ju 88?

Many thx for your help.
dnalor

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Hello dnalor,
This may help ?
According to "Spitfires & Yellow tailed Mustangs"
Pages 153 ( index has 155 ) and page 160.

Page 153 in relation to combat on 5th November 1944.
" The Messerschmitts were destroyed, one each by Capt. Robert Schween and Lt. Hans Zachmann.
Unfortunately Lt. Horace Hudson, flying P51C "QP-L" was killed during the encounter, possibly shot down by one of the four Me109s that disappeared.
About an hour after these encounters, Lt. Warren Lockwood, 5th FS, came upon a Ju88 and promptly shot it down for the Groups fourth kill of the day".
Page 160
In relation to combat on the 19th March 1945
"Lt. Warren Lockwood opened up on it (an FW190D ) and scohits on the canopy and right wing. The canopy quickly came off and the pilot bailed out, only to die when his chute failed to open".

Good hunting
Alex

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

1944-11-05, 4.(F)/122, Ju 88 T-3, 330222, F6+HM, Sexten, 4 km südöstlich Innichen
Flugzeugführer Olt Hoeb, Heinz, +
Beobachter Fw Kopf, Hermann, +
Bordfunker Ofw Bremer, Hans, +
Bordmechaniker Uffz Hartmann, Heinz, +
Unbekannt. Bruch 100 %.

Matti

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

From Air War Italy 1944–45 (Beale, D'Amico, Valentini):

At 1220 GMT a Ju 88 T-3 of 4.(F)/122 (W.Nr. 330220, F6+HM) left Bergamo on a daylight photographic mission to the Brenner Pass area, piloted by Oblt. Heinz Hoeb. It was later the subject of "anxious enquiries by Bergamo"; at 1440 there was still no news of it. It had been chased by planes of 5th FS and shot down near Innichen, right on the Austrian border, killing all four aboard.

That is the Werk Nummer given by our source, a handwritten list of FAGr. 122 lossses in Italy, compiled from the NVMs by (I think) Winfried Bock and supplied to the late Ferdinando D'Amico.

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

MAAF 1000, gives also some data on this loss...

Rémi

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Alex, Matti, Nick, Remi,

what great replies, thank you so much.
Now I am able to summarize the incident from 5th Nov. 1944 on a profound basis.
75 years after the crash I still found two eye witnesses who are curious about the details of the mishap.
Remi, please give me short explanation on MAAF 1000. Quite new to me, but I am learning.....
All the best
dnalor

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Just showing you the former crashsite, a profitable pasture nowadays.
Will look there for debris in October.
dnalor

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Gina -

Rémi loves to befuddle folks with obscure acronyms and abbreviations.

Awaiting his reply, I can tell you that MAAF = Mediterranean Allied Air Force, but the meaning of "1000" is a mystery to me, too. It may be a file number or the number of a roll of microfilm. Let's see if Rémi can enlighten us.

L.

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Hello RT, Remi,
I sent you a PM but it seems your mail box is full ?
Reason for post, as per dnalor's question - an explanation of MAAF 1000.
Many thanks
Alex

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Have checked the NVM and it clearly says 330222. Of course even the NVM can contain errors, but is there any other source for the WNr. of this loss. If not, I am afraid that for the time being we have to accept this number.

Matti

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

I think the original NVMs are more likely to be correct than the list we had which was copied from them.

"Rémi loves to befuddle folks with obscure acronyms and abbreviations."

I confess the charges, but plead for mitigation, as that is the right name of the doc !!! at least as quoted at Kew
In this doc are recorded the details given by Nick, nd no I don't try to befuddle people, or only sometimes to put some salt or pepper, but I hv mind to hv some care, sense of humor is vanishing

Regarding the Wn. i wonder, for that date, which primary source gives it , apart the NVM..

Rémi

PS no salt, mor pepper there !

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Hi Rémi: no loss of humor here, but perhaps different humor. You use a lot of abbreviations common to texting, such as "hv" for "have". For those of us who are really, really, really old and don't text, these can at times be very confusing! I remember several of your posts from the past that I did not understand at all, but I shrugged it off to language difficulties.

L. :sloww::):)

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Do you thing , Larry, that I am really greatly younger than you ?? ,a little probably yes , anyway 62 are at my counter

Rémi

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Surprise, Rémi, I beat you by 19 years.............I'm old enough to be your Dad. Wouldn't that be a shocker?

L. :D ;)

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

I "fear" something like that, hv, sorry, have some more good years


Rémi

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Larry,

I thought you were much more younger - around 50+ (not even 60!). Anyway, your LW sites are amazing and a great source for the youngsters and other "Sprogs" like me.

Baumgartner

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Thanks, Adriano!

L.

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

OK,
I get what "MAAF" is :)
So can somebody tell me what is "MAAF 1000 " ?

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Contact me, alex I will send you the full set

Rémi

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Hello RT ,
Remi I have sent you a pm.
Alex

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Dear Friends,

beside the searched crew names of Ju 88 loss, thx! once more,
I am happy to watch that your contributions also brought clarification of abbreviations, ages, humor, spices and acronyms....
I love this Forum - LOL
No harm ment!

Best
dnalor
dnalor

Re: Ju 88 loss 5th Nov. 1944
 

Dear All,

can somebody find/identify a foto of Oblt. Heinz Hoeb. Many of the LW uniform fotos have no name, maybe one of Hoeb is among them.... I did not succeed in finding one.
Thanks for any effort in advance.

dnalor