US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

Hi all,

on a FW190A crash site we found this plate which - correct me if I am wrong - comes from a fuel pressure indicator.

What is amazing is that this plate shows a US Patent , it is indeed a Bendix equipment;

how is this possible this gauge could fitted on a German aircraft ?

GC

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

Gilles

Are you really sure, that you have a FW 190 crash site ?.

Horst Weber

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

Hi Horst

99% sure we have a FW190.

We have a witness 97 year old who was there and explained us :

"a German single engine aircraft, with a round engine crashed there, it was in August 1943" and he indicated us the place at plaisance du Touch.

And this totally matches with Matti's data.

1943-08-05 JGr. Ost FW 190A-4 140673 Plaisance-du-Touch, 13 km westsüdwestlich Toulouse Notlandung infolge Motorstörung. Bruch 60 %.


In the field this old man indicated us, we found aircraft parts, including this plate. I understand that the fuel flow indicator was Bendix related on FW190, so it makes sense, but how explain that we had US Patent equipments on FW190 ?

Cheers

Gilles

PS : see post here above it is the same aircraft story

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

A NAA 57 ? or NAA 64 ? An Amercian uit a/c ?

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

Gilles,
For me, it is unlikely this US plate comes from a FW 190, unless I am wrong...
or two planes on the same field (already seen).

ClinA-78

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

It is possible there was another crash at this site, or the plate was dumped there. After the war, sometimes during, useful bits of metal were collected by local people. When clearing crashed Allied aircraft from a field, a part may be lost when larger pieces are collected. There may have been a post-war Allied aircraft crash there. A lot of possibilities to consider.

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

Well, thanks for your suggestions but the mystery remains;

It is a field where nothing else happened (no dump, no other crash in the area), the witness although old was very clear and precise, and his testimony matches perfectly with the archives;

Moreover, no US plane crashed around Toulouse (except a couple of B17 far away from this field).

So, just like the German planes were having "continental" tyres, I was wondering if they were not benefiting from US Patent inherited from the prewar period.

It would be good to have a FW190 instrument expert here.

GC

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

On this crash site, I had found a part with a marking : 210-87-60 (see attachment)

which clearly was in favor of the FW190 hypothesis.

any comment on this marking ?

Gilles

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

Bonjour Gilles

Autosyn instruments need an alternative current supply, typically 400 Hertz, and are very US specific, mainly on multi engine planes. From my limited knowledge, all the electric systems on the Fw 190 are operating on 24 Volt direct current, so the possibility of autosyn instruments on those planes seems remote. I will check if such kind of instruments where build under license in Germany, but, at least during the Fw 190 production period, it seems doubtful that they will exhibit a plate indicating a foreign origin.

I will also check if autosyn instruments can be found on the NAA 57.

Have a nice Sunday !

Bien amicalement

J. Schreiber

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

FYI,
Continental, est. 1871 is a german company then and still is based in Hannover.

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

Salut Jean: I posted a picture this plate on the "Allied Air Forces" side of this forum, we will see if something comes out.

Philippe : I checked : no NAA 54 or 67 crash in the area.
and no crash of US A/C but the two B17 far away from this FW190 crash site.

Thanks Chris for the precision concerning Continental

Wait and see if we get further elements to help clarifying...

GC

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

I had an eyewitness (German farmer) show us the crash-site of "ein Spitfeuer" fighter. When we excavated the wreck, it was a Bf-109G.

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

It seems that the only equipment with a US origin fitted on a German A/C would be the WendeHorizont Fl.22426 Sperry licence, fitted on Ju 88

https://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/fl-...-horizont-1940

So, this Autosyn plate found on a FW190 crash has nothing to do with the FW190

and it is there by pure chance !

All the more as (see "Allied air force" section) that this US equipment would be post 1953, so it really has no connection with a WWII crash.

So, we would really have a FW190 crash site.

GC

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

GILLES,

Do you have more DATA about the two B-17 that crashed far away, but around the area?

On one of your plates there is the code ...17B-2...

Maybe the MACR (if there are one) for each of those B-17 losses can give you (us) a glimpse IF the crew jettisoned some of the equipments onboard to maintain height or, if there was a huge explosion (theoretically capable of sending a small part some km away from the actual main place where the wreckage fell). This is just a theory for further investigation.

A.

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

GILLES, from the Pilot's Manual for Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress

“Alternating current for the Autosyn instruments; drift meter, radio compass, and warning signals transformer is furnished by two inverters under the pilot’s and copilot’s seat.”

Photo enclosed of similar plaque (Autosyn Instrument - Bendix):

BOEING B-17 BOMBER FLAP POSITION INDICATOR GAGE INSTRUMENT GAUGE, ORIG. WWII VTG (…12B-1B…)

A.

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

Salut mon ami Adriano,

sorry for the late answer and thanks for your ideas.

Indeed, 2 B17 crashed around Toulouse but the first one crashed at Boulaur, near Auch (50 km West of our field).
In this link :
http://francecrashes39-45.net/page_f...9c88416c583369
you have the whole story and you can even access to the MACR.
The flight pass would match (they were coming from Algiers) but I understand that they were chased by FW190 , and bailed out without throwing any material while in flight.


The other B17 crashed 10 km North west at Cornebarrieu and was shot down by the FLAK

http://francecrashes39-45.net/page_fiche_av.php?id=2049

I understand that it was similar than above (no throwing of the equipment before crash).

So, the idea is good but I don't think that this plate was thrown away by the crews of these B17.

Question: is there a website dedicated to B17 ? (where somebody could maybe tell me more about this plate)

merci et à bientôt

Gilles

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

Adriano,

maybe you put me on the right track:

The B17 was shot on 24 Aug. 1943
The FW190 crashed on 5 Aug 1943

Could we imagine the following:

At the end of August, the truck with some B17 remains coming back from Boulaur to Toulouse, stops at the FW190 crash site to collect some parts remaining.

It makes sense because Plaisance (the FW190 crash place) is between Boulaur and Toulouse (there is a train station there)

and, while loading the FW190 parts on the truck, the guys drop this B17 plate in the FW190 crash site;

Just an idea...

GC

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

Gilles,

The Kommandantur's archives may have something about the party that recovered those wrecks, if they survived....so, maybe a good start on that "road"? Maybe at Vincennes there is something digitalized? Or at Toulouse's Archives?

Your last possibility seems possible indeed...

Of course, if they were on combat and hit, they wouldn't have time to jettison anything else. I initially thought about an engine fire in flight, with 3 engines and a lot of miles to go back, maybe they would try to jettison something to keep height and speed. But the MACR closes this theory...

Do you remember the document you found me? On it there was the actions after crash...so maybe a similar one do exist for both those crashes nearby your home...am sure it does exist.

Kiss the children for me and my Family...we shall meet again "un jour".

Friendly yours, as ever,
Adriano

Re: US PATENT ON A FW190 EQUIPMENT ?
 

Good sense of imagination Gilles but, I am afraid, this piece will keep his secret unless you find other bits of this said FW 190.
Keep digging!

ClinA-78