Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php)
-   Books and Magazines (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=55619)

Flavio 28th November 2019 21:31

Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
Scheduled for April 2020.
Hoping it will contain new info and photos.
Flavio

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Tulip...s=books&sr=1-4

AMC 28th November 2019 23:45

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
Whatever about the content, I'm judging the book by the cover, and it's the most dreadful and bland cover I've seen in a long time.
"BLACK CROSS-RED STAR" Christer Bergstrom take a bow....

edwest2 29th November 2019 01:09

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
A clue can be found in the About the Author write-up.

Stig Jarlevik 30th November 2019 14:05

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
Disregarding the cover, it at least seems to be a book far more honest than the one written by Toliver/Constable.

No idea if we will get a "final" biography of Hartmann or not, but hopefully so!

Cheers
Stig

Nick Beale 30th November 2019 16:11

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AMC (Post 278592)
Whatever about the content, I'm judging the book by the cover, and it's the most dreadful and bland cover I've seen in a long time.

Much better than the usual wrong aircraft, inaccurate markings, all-guns-blazing, dropping-bombs-in-a-45º-banking-turn type of cover.

Jukka Juutinen 30th November 2019 17:20

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
But 240 pages? No way a thorough bio!

edwest2 30th November 2019 21:04

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Beale (Post 278665)
Much better than the usual wrong aircraft, inaccurate markings, all-guns-blazing, dropping-bombs-in-a-45º-banking-turn type of cover.

Well, we could at least have the right aircraft in a 45 degree banking turn. Covers sell books.


Ed

Stig Jarlevik 1st December 2019 08:23

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jukka Juutinen (Post 278667)
But 240 pages? No way a thorough bio!

Maybee not Jukka, maybee not, but perhaps it is a start?

I think it is about time we get something more solid with regard to the ace-of-aces. Come to think of it, one does not necessarily need 500 - 750 pages to write an honest biography.

I would also like to see an honest book about Adolf Galland and not all those "worship" books so far published!

Cheers
Stig

Jukka Juutinen 1st December 2019 11:08

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
A thorough biography should e.g. cover every victory claim in detail. Not possible within 240 pages, unless in large format and 9000 characters per page.

Dénes Bernád 1st December 2019 11:38

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
QUOTE: "About the Author. Erik Schmidt is a senior marketing writer and idea-maker, with a professional mindset. He has a graduate degree in creative nonfiction. A lover of history and aviation, this book started out as a grad-school thesis."

Nick Beale 1st December 2019 11:41

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád (Post 278707)
this book started out as a grad-school thesis."

Which often means that you can find a downloadable version of the text on the university's website.

Nick Hector 1st December 2019 12:54

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
"Black Tulip is the story of the top-scoring ace in history, a World War II Luftwaffe pilot named Erich Hartmann (1922–1993). Over 1,404 wartime missions, Hartmann scored 352 kills (the top American ace, Dick Bong, scored 40) and his career was full of drama."

Sorry, that's already looking bad....

Flitzer 7th December 2019 22:50

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
Sounds like Hartman may have been part of a gigantic hoax enabled by all his fellow pilots. I'll enjoy the book when it comes out, as I enjoyed "Another Bowl of Kaputska", and my all time favorite of this genre "In Defiance". We're all serious here, but that doesn't mean we can't have a laugh once in awhile.

FalkeEins 11th December 2019 15:39

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flitzer (Post 279051)
Sounds like Hartman may have been part of a gigantic hoax

..see 'The Myth of the Eastern Front' (Smelser/Davies, Cambridge University Press, 2008)

Jukka Juutinen 11th December 2019 16:17

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
Why bother with that extremely biased concoction?

FalkeEins 22nd December 2019 15:06

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
..well, there's a clue in the sub-title of Schmidt's book I'd have thought..

( and the jacket illustration on amazon indicates that the sub-title doesn't read 'Life and Legacy' as this thread would have it...)

Nick Hector 23rd December 2019 01:29

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FalkeEins (Post 279754)
..well, there's a clue in the sub-title of Schmidt's book I'd have thought..

( and the jacket illustration on amazon indicates that the sub-title doesn't read 'Life and Legacy' as this thread would have it...)

You have an excellent point, but I am left wondering:

Given that there are several myths attached to Hartmann, which particular one does the author seek to address?

Nick Hector 30th May 2020 16:29

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
So...
...Has anyone actually checked this one out yet?

Frank Olynyk 30th May 2020 17:15

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
I have it, and have read it. As a biography of Hartmann it is a very modest effort. There is no victory list for him. There is only (as I remember) a single mention of the controversy around his claiming (and it is only a mention, not a discussion). In many ways the book is more a discussion of the nature of Nazi Germany, than a biography of Erich Hartmann.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Nick Hector 31st May 2020 03:06

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Olynyk (Post 289538)
I have it, and have read it. As a biography of Hartmann it is a very modest effort. There is no victory list for him. There is only (as I remember) a single mention of the controversy around his claiming (and it is only a mention, not a discussion). In many ways the book is more a discussion of the nature of Nazi Germany, than a biography of Erich Hartmann.

Enjoy!

Frank.


Thanks very much for your reply, Frank. Sounds like this one can stay on the shelf...

Jukka Juutinen 10th January 2022 09:53

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
This aberration of a book was recently published in Finnish. I just took a look at it at a local library. First I checked the reference notes section: not a single archival reference! Then the foreword. And it became clear that the book is no biography, it is a political pamphlet. One of his references is titled "How Whiteness Distorts Our Democracy, With Eddie Glaude jr.". In other words, pure wokeist propaganda.

Dénes Bernád 10th January 2022 10:06

Re: Black Tulip: The Life and Legacy of Erich Hartmann
 
As I noted earlier, the word "myth" in the subtitle made me instantly suspicious about the real motives of the author. His professional background just added to it. But, apparently, there is always a market for books that "debunk the myth" of a famous German pilot, a "Nazi" by default. I am wondering why such books aren't written about Soviet 'ace' pilots as well, "Communists" by default...


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:03.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net