Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Hi all
I recently purchased these interesting items direct from Germany. They consist of six cut pieces from Luftwaffe documents and have the letter W written on them in ink or pencil ? Two are dated from September (1940?) and one or two others have some type remaining.
The seller advertised them as from JG2 documents, and the W initial as Wicks.
I’d be very interested to know peoples options on them.
It’s intriguing that it’s only the initial “W” and not his full name, but it would make sense if he was signing the documents in a hurry or had a pile of orders to go through??
I appreciate how rare Wick items are, so the jury’s out, but you never know?

Many thanks.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

I have two such cut signatures given to me by Lt Franz Fiby in 1982, I have the full Wick name and the colour and style match

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Hi Chris
Thank you for your prompt reply, very interesting and much appreciated.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Here is his signature in a Soldbuch.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Many thanks for the photo 👍

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Identical to mine

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

That's tragic, would love to have seen the original docs.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Indeed, for History (and the owner of the artifact) this is criminal, to cut such a document...

I remember consulting a book on the Library of my University, only to find it totally cut like this pieces of signatures, where the loveliest photos of Architecture were...sadly no one never reported that to the Authorities until I found the problem and informed...no culpit, of course...no one to blame...

Perhaps those who cut did not understand or comprehend the importance for History of this kind of documents...anyway...a sad loss to History and a mervellous acquisition by the new owner.

A.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Yes, I agree it’s a shame. It would have been great to see the original documents complete. However, still interesting items which I’m thrilled to own.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

You bet it is!

Maybe the dates (19/9, etc.) can give you a glimpse...about what were related to, those documents...but you would need further investigation on his career and JG 2, to find out more...A wonderful batch indeed. Congratulations!

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Hi
I’ve also been lucky enough to receive another item from the same German source. It’s a photo postcard of Wick with a shopping list written on the reverse. I was informed by the seller, that it originated along with the clippings from a JG2 pilots estate. He was led to believe that the card related to the Oakleaf award celebrations for Wicks Knights Cross.
It was certainly a hell of a party, judging by the amount of cognac and cigars !!!
He said the handwriting could possibly be Wick’s, but I have no examples of his writing to compare it to, so who knows?
Anyway, it’s certainly intriguing. I am also expecting a further item, which I will post in due course.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Very cool, and certainly quite the party considering the items which he bought.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Here’s another clipping I’ve obtained recently. I’m intrigued as to why Wick’s rank has been crossed out and alterations written underneath and also crossed out.
Ideas anyone ??

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

In response to post #13:
1. Because his rank was Hauptmann (Hptm), not Oberleutnant (Oblt) nor Major; and
2. Because he was Gruppenkommandeur, not 'Acting' (stellv) Gruppenkommandeur.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Thank you for the very prompt and informative response, much appreciated.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

I think the term is delete as applicable especially with the promotions he had between June & November 1940!

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Thank you Chris

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

This clipping has two signatures and relates to an EK1 award, but without the full document it may be difficult to find out the recipient.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Difficult? I would say with the rest missing, it is near impossible

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Thankfully one document survived complete and was not clipped.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Bonsoir.
First of all, a very happy 2020!

Very nice document on the rank (Ofw) of Hans Tilly who was a pilot at 3./JG2 in October 1940. It may be documents that all come from Hans Tilly. For example on the little piece which indicates the delivery of the EK1 I think I also recognize with the cut signature of Wick, the cut signature of Erich Leie, who flew in ocotbre 1940 at Stab.I.
In October 1940, 5 victories were necessary to obtain the EK1. Hans Tilly reached this score on October 5, 1940.
In any case, thank you for sharing these beautiful documents
Fred

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Hi Fred
Thank you for your kind message, I can confirm that all the items originated from the estate of Hans Tilly. I believe Erich Leie was Wick’s adjutant at the time, so it makes sense that his signature would be on the EK1 document. Hans Tilly kept all these items together, so they must have been important to him, it may well have been his EK1 award.

Very best wishes and Happy New Year to you also.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Interesting especially as I have this on him:


He claimed his first victory, together with Lt Kurt Votel, over Calais on 29 May 1940, identifying his victim as a Wapiti but was more likely a Swordfish of 825 Sqn. His next victory was not until 7 September 1940, his last of the Battle of Britain coming on 5 October 1940 by which time he had been promoted to Fw. He would get his sixth on 5 November 1940 by which time he had been promoted to Ofw He would achieve his seventh and final victory on 6 July 1941 as the following day, he was shot down in combat and killed near St Pol in Bf 109 F-2, Wk Nr 12816, Yellow 12+.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Thanks Chris
Very interesting information, I believe he was shot down and killed by a 609 Squadron Spitfire, whilst escorting a German convoy in the channel.

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

There were 10 claims for Bf 109s destroyed and another two probables this day and from what I can see only 2 Bf 109s were destroyed that day so in my opinion hard to say for certain who got him. Furthermore, Erik Mombeek states he was defending St Pol (not over the sea) and was lost in unknown circumstances

Re: Helmut Wick initialed documents ?
 

Thank you everybody for your replies and messages on this thread, much appreciated.
This is the last clipping from the Tilly collection, I’m no German handwriting expert, so I’m not sure what it relates to ?

Best regards