B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Gentlemen,
today I get informations from an eyewitness about a B-17, crashed at 14. february 1945. The crashplace is located near the village of Weisel, between Wiesbaden and Koblenz, about 10 km N of Bingen. 9 members of the crew were taken as POW, some of them were injured. The old man told me that mentioned a/c was damaged by flak during a mission to Kassel(?). The wreck was recovered by american soldiers after VE-day.
All these datas sourcing at his diary of 1945.

I am not an expert in 8th USAAF-losses in WW 2, but I´ve found the following informations about losses for this day:

-B-17, 42-97185, 306.BG, 369.BS.
-B-17, 43-38405, 351.BG, 508.BS., 1 KIA, 8 POW, Flak, mission to Dresden
-B-17, 42-39147, 379.BG, 527.BS., mission to Dresden
-B-24, 44-40109, 389.BG, 566.BS., 1 KIA, 8 POW, Flak, Magdeburg
-B-17, 43-39079, 390.BG, 569.BS., 2 POW, ? KIA, Flak, crashed near Wiesbaden
-B-17, 43-38375, 92.BG, 407.BS., mission to Dresden
-B-17, 43-37657, 381.BG, 534.BS, damaged

Any aditional informations about mentioned losses and their crashplaces are interesting for me and "my" eyewitness.

Thank you in advance,

Heuser

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Hello Heuser,

I cannot add much, except that 43-38405 crash landed in the Westzaan Polder near the Wormerveer in Holland. So this one is certainly not a 'candidate'.
1 out, 6 to go.

Good luck!
Hans Nauta

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

B-17, 42-97185, 306.BG, 369.BS.

is not candidate as well.

Damaged by 3 fighters over Dresden, wanted to fly to the Red Army Frontline. Part of crew jumped out over Northern Bohemia, rest over village Hřídelec, Eastern Bohemia. Plane crashed nearby.

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Mr. Nauta, Michal,
thank you very much for your informations.
Another eyewitness told me today that mentioned a/c was in good condition. It seems to be a belly landing, inhabitants of Weisel recovered things like the Norden bombsight, tanks and wheels. He talks about ten crew members, taken as POW. So I strike B-17 43-39079 off my list, because there were only two men listed as POW, others KIA.
4 to go...

Best regards,

Heuser

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Heuser - # 2102975 F " Verna " 306th BG 369th Sq.
shot down 14-2-45 Pilot - Lt. Jack Hanley
9 POW Macr # 12324
Only B- 17 loss this day with 9 POW
Cheers,
Mike

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Mike,
thank you very much for your reply! I´just checked all my datas about mentioned date and found all other bombers lost in Holland and Belgium. I´ve found 42-102975 listed for 82. BG, in another source for 306.BG., 369.BS. Only 30 seconds later I get your message! Of course, this would be a candidate for mentined loss.
Every further datas about this a/c, its mission and the crew are very welcome!

Best Regards,

Heuser

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Heuser - FYI
The A/C Name was " Verna E. "
Crash location near Nachtsheim ?
Mike

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Hello Mike,
Nachtsheim is about 40 km W of Koblenz, Weisel about 20 Km S of Koblenz...
I think this is to far.
As I mentioned, I am not an expert about USAAF-losses, but I´ll give you an example:
17.08.1943, B-17 F "Vertical Shaft", 384.BG, 544.BS, 42-29956, Lt. Hausenfluck, crashed near Alzey. 2 KIA, 8 POW. (Informations from several sources).
The real crashplace is located near St. Goarshausen, possibly between Ruppertshofen and Kasdorf, sourcing on an account from Lt. Everson, Navigator of "Vertical Shaft", GAF claim lists and several informations from eyewitnesses (but further informations are welcome).
Distance between St. Goarshausen and Alzey: 60 km.

If there were any informations from American sources, I think the crashplace would be located "...near" Bingen, Boppard, S of Koblenz, (St.) Goar, (St.) Goarshausen, Rüdesheim, N of Wiesbaden...
Interesting for me: no eyewitness talks about german units trying to recover the crashed a/c. So I think the date of crashing could be only between February and early March 1945.
Maybe somebody could recommend a book about USAAF losses including tracking chards...

Mike, thank you for work again!

Best regards,

Heuser

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Heuser - I have list of all b - 17s lost this day. The book shows Nachtsteim and a Question Mark- so not sure of exact crash site. I still think this is it - 9 man crew , 9 POW. Another 306th B - 17 crashed near
Bad Belohrad ? - Question Mark 1 KIA 8 POW
Have you sent for the MACR # 12324 ?
You can order FOR FREE , maybe some postage , from:
Lynn.Gamma@Maxwell.AF.MIL
Mike

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Mike,
a big THANK YOU again. I´m going to meet my eyewitness again next week, maybe there is an error in the date.
There are other questions from my side:
-what was the target of 369.BS for 14.02.1945? Dresden, as mentioned by Michal?
-Do you have the name of the crew members of "Verna E."?
-What´s about markings or camouflage of this BS? Unit code WW-, triangle H, that is everything from my side...
-What´s about the bombsight? Are there any markings on it to identify the a/c?

Speculation:
If I take a look into the map with given datas, mission to Dresden-damaged near Kassel-destination Thurleigh AF, there is only one explanation: after damaged by Flak near Kassel on the way back home, the a/c take a new course (SW) to reach the own frontlines in Belgium or Luxemburg. But speculation is not my way to work...

And Bad Belohrad...I´ve found no city, village or even a place in western Europe with this name (and variations). Maybe in Bohemia/Moravia?

Best Regards,

Heuser

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

B-17, 42-97185, 306.BG, 369.BS had primary target Dresden and was damaged by three fighters over Dresden. Four flyers jumped out damaged plane in area of town Chabařovice (Karbitz), nearby Ústí nad Labem (Aussig), Northern Bohemia, around 13.05 o´clock. Five crew members jumped out in vicinity of villages Hřídelec and Lány, nearby town Lázně Bělohrad (Bad Belohrad), Eastern Bohemia, at 13.20 o´clock.

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Michal,
thank you very much for your datas.
Do you have maps with german and the new names of cities/villages after WW II for Bohemia? It is very difficult to find something about these names in Germany...

Best Regards,

Heuser

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Excluding some dictionaries this web-site is useful as well:

www.hartau.de/PBM/Protektorat

Just small note: only small part of towns and villages was renamed in so called Sudetenland after WW2 and new name in Czech was able to to create. Majority of settles had both German and Czech Names from founding.

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Michal,
thank you very much. Exactly what I was looking for.

Best Regards,

Heuser

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Gentlemen,
today I visited other eyewitnesses. It looks like mentioned a/c was Verna E., 42-102975. But to play it safe, I´am searching for informatios about B-17-losses with 9 POW´s for 16. and 17. february 1945.

@Mike: I´ve found MACR 13325 for Verna E. in two different sources. Any idea?

Every information is welcome!

Best Regards,

Heuser

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

I recieved an e-mail with the following datas, the original source is unknown so far:

B-17 42-102975 MACR 12325 Date 14/02/1945 BELYWeisel

If Weisel was the crashplace, what does BELY mean? I´ve got no idea...

Thanks in advance,

Heuser

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

belly landing?

Re: B-17 crash 14.02.1945
 

Gentlemen,
now I´am sure, mentioned a/c was "Verna E.", 42-102975, belly landing in Weisel, Germany at 14.02.1945 after damaged by Flak.
Thank you all, best regards,

Heuser