Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Dear all,

I'm looking for Crashed Enemy Aircraft Reports (or the American equivalent thereof) or experts on Le Culot (a.k.a Beauvechain) and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields (Belgium) in the hope of finally locating a blown-up Ju 88 S-3 of 3./KG66. Aircraft was likely left behind during the retreat from France via Belgium and the Netherlands to Germany.

Thanks in advance,

Marcel

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Hi Marcel,

These pages from Crashed Enemy Aircraft Report No. 255 (dated 10 October 1944) have a few wrecks at Beauvechain.

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Thanks Nick! Until recently I had never realized that Beauvechain and Le Culot were actually the same airfield. It’s a pity the Allied investigation team for Le Culot/Beauvechain only recorded the Werknummer and doesn’t mention the tactical markings and aircraft code..Unfortunately of the aircraft in question the aircraft code Z6+HL is fully visible on the fin, however the Werknummer (330..then possibly a 2..last 2 characters illegible..) can only partially be seen. I even wonder whether some of the A-4s in the Crashed Enemy Aircraft Report for Le Culot were misidentified and could actually be S-3s, as for example the nose of the aircraft I’m investigating is completely destroyed. Does anybody have an overview (i.e. list) of the Werknummer Block for the Ju 88 S-3 (assuming that they were converted as a batch rather than as individual and completely different aircraft)?”
Regards,

Marcel

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Hello Marcel, Nick
here are some info, alas not much about Bauvechain. However, Nick is this the only page for Reims?
There are 100 wrecks recorded on the base of Reims. 80 on the aerodrome and about 20 between the station and the aerodrome. Do you have the next page of the Reims document?
cdlt Joel

• 14-15/07/1944 Ju88G1 wk# 3./NJG4 Hemptinne nord est de phillipeville uffz H. Holze,?
• 5-6/04/1944 Ju88C6 wk#7 50249 "3C+AK" 2./NJG4 1,2km sud est de philippeville W. Oldenburg, S. Lauenburg, J. Clasen, A. Stornau, G. Wend, tués
• 23/24/12/1944 Ju88G1 werk 714045 “3C+E(B)M" 4./NJG4 Heer sur Meuse Ofhr K. Hülfert, disparu; G. Richter T. Weinrich, prisonniers
• 23/24/12/1944[ Ju88S3 werk? “L1+KM" 4./LG1 Soy-Hotton A. Johänntges, prisonnier
• 26/12/1944 Fw190D9 wk#? I/JG26 Carlsbourg nord de Bouillon Fw Otto Hans Schöndorf prisonnier
• 26/12/1944 Fw190D9 wk 210931 “10+bleu" 4./JG26 Nord de Bouillon vers Carlsbourg oblt Hans Hartigs, prisonnier
• 27/12/1944 Fw190A8[ werk 175048 “2+blanc" I./JG1 vers Dinant hans joachim Lûpke, disparu
• 27/12/1944[ Ju88G6 wk#6 20870 “4R+HW" 12./NJG2 Chaumont pres de Florennes HJ.Wagener, tué
• 30/12/1944 Ju188[ p3548 est de Libramont?
• 31/12/1944 Ju88 wk#140207 "G9+Gy 4./NJG4 Heer sur Meuse uffz Mikusky Konrad, Alfred Overbeck, Heinz Hermann Gobrecht, tués

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Those crashes are rather in the area of Florennes-Juzaine airfield (or at least in the South part of Belgium, I have investigated some of them), Beauvechain is much norther, center of Belgium.
I am afraid no Ju 88S appears neither in the books "Beauvechain Le Culot 1935 -1945 Flugplatz -Airfield by Robert PIED (ISBN 296001720X) nor about Gosselies.
But perhaps if you forward me the pic I can transfer it to a friend well aware of both airfield.


ClinA-78

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Yes.

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Hi Marcel,

Do you happen to have a high resolution photo of Z6+HL in Belgium at the time, or do you know if it is published anywhere? The only version I know in ‚Luftwaffe Codes Units and Markings‘ is very low quality and I would like to make this aircraft a modeling project.

Thanks,
David

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Hi Clin, I would be very interested in both books. Do you have a title and ISBN for the one on Gosselies also, perhaps? PS Could you please send me a PM with your email address?

Regards,

Marcel

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Thanks Joel,

Marcel

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Hi David, I will see what I can do. PS I haven't forgotten about your request, I just need some more time to look things up.

Regards,

Marcel

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Hi Marcel, many thanks, I appreciate the effort!

Best,
David

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

thank you very much, for these documents
Regards,

Joel

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Hi all,

It took some time, but at last the photos of Z6+HL (thanks Piet!!). Anyone willing to give it a shot with regard to the full Werknummer or the correct airfield?

Best regards,

Marcel

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

After inexpertly adjusting the fin area with Photoshop, I read the Werk Nummer as 3302[?][6 or8]. I wouldn't swear to it though.

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Thanks so much for the photos Marcel!

Might it help with identifying the wknr. if one knew what type of engines these had? The third picture gives a decent view.

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Marcel, I tried to send you a message but yor box was full.


ArtieBob

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Hi Art,

I just removed some PMs from my inbox, my apologies for the inconvenience. However, feel free to contact me directly at my email address, it's still the same as when we corresponded about your Ju 88 books. BTW Is yours still the same?

Best regards,

Marcel

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

After fiddling with the faintly legible W.Nr. of your fourth photo, Marcel, we might have W.Nr. 330 243. Digits 330 2.3 are relatively clear to read, digit "4" is a possibility.

Cheers
Marc

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

If M-A is right, nd the STKZ for this serie, 240 to 249, is BG+H,then BK+K.
240/241/242/245/246/247 are known nd still named in other units after oct 44, the Ju88S found in Reims was 330257 !, no spur anywhere from the 243...



Rémi

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Hi Marc,

Could it be a "7" instead of a "4", i.e. 330273 for the W.Nr. as one source with apparently sharper copies of Crow's photos states? If that's indeed the case, this "little mystery of mine for several years" is finally solved as this I./KG66 aircraft can now be linked to Beauvechain/Le Culot: In the Crashed Enemy Aircraft Report supplied by Nick earlier in this thread we can read that 330273 was (wrongly) attributed by the Allied investigation team for Beauvechain/Le Culot to a Ju 88 A-4. Which is quite reasonable considering that after all the Ju 88 S variants were converted A-4s and that everything that makes it an "S" (engines, smooth glass nose) was either missing or destroyed on this particular aircraft!

Beauvechain/Le Culot would also make perfect sense considering it was one of the airfields used during the retreat by I./KG66 from France (Montidier, then Lille-Vendeville) through Belgium (Brussels-Melsbroek and Beauvechain) and the Nerherlands (Eindhoven) to Germany (Frankfurt Rhein-Main and finally Dedelstorf).

What do you think?

Regards,

Marcel

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Marcel,

Your argumentation in favour of W.Nr. 330273 is flawless. Relying fully on my eyeball Mk 1 apparatus, I alas can't confirm the fifth number as being a "7".

Cheers
Marc

Re: Any Crashed Enemy A/C Reports or (Belgian) experts on Le Culot and Charleroi-Gosselies airfields?
 

Hi Marc,

Completely agree! I would also love to see that sharper photo myself and check whether it's indeed a "7". At the moment my source is looking for it somewhere in his belongings, so fingers crossed…

Regards,

Marcel