Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

For those, who are interested in Fw 190 records...

Found soviet document of 3rd battery / 1615. FLAK-regiment, which downed SG.10 Fw 190F-8, WNr.: 583603 on January 1, 1945 near Aba, Hungary. They carefully copied the numbers they found on the examined wreck into their report in details, so the plane probably belly landed near them in pretty good shape:

Plane marking was No. '7'
Serial number (W.Nr.): 583603
Engine number: Klatte-Huchting(?) 9-801 822-70511

Then they list the gunners, who downed the plane. (From other sources we know that the pilot was Obgfr. Fridolin Heitz, MIA)
Cheers,

Gabor

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

Hello Gabor,
Thank you for posting this most interesting document.
However, Klatte-Huchting(?) 9-801 822-70511 is probably not the aircraft’s BMW 801 D Motornummer. Klatte, Theodore, Metallwarenfabrik, Bremen-Huching (Hersteller code jdo) produced aircraft exhaust components and sheet metal not complete engines..
Respectfully,
Steve Sheflin

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

Thanks Steve!
Gabor

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

As Mr. Sheflin says, interesting document. This is not a machine or incident that I have in my own database. Can I ask what the "other sources" are that you mention? Have I missed or overlooked an available source document/published title? (Wouldn't be the first time.)

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

NVM for WNr 583603, black 7, dates 2nd Jan 1945. OGfr Meitz (or Heitz) Friedolin MIA Totvazecay/Ungarn. The date is reported twice, probably no typo

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

Tótvázsony was the base of 2./SG.10 N of Lake Balaton, but this recce. plane was lost over the Székesfehérvár airfield and crashed at Aba-W to 3rd flak battery of 1615 ZENAP, 17 VA, 3rd Ukr. Front. It's a bit of a distance, so definitely was not lost at Tótvázsony. Soviet record clearly says January 1, 1945 at 13:00 PM, contradicting the WASt NVM Report, so it can be just a typo. Would not be the first time. (The report itself was written on January 3, 1945.)

Source: ЦАМО, Ф.1615 ЗенАП, О.0107965с, Д.0002, Л.4

ст.л-т Рыбалко Алексей Иванович (1615 аэр. полк ПВО 17 ВА 3 УкрФ)
м-р Поройков Иван Константинович
инженер-к-н Городничий
л-т Романов
с-т Гуреев

Cheers,
Gabor

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

Gabor,


thanks a lot!

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

Obviously, it does not look like a typo error in both documents. Perhaps it is the date of issuing loss report, or it was an error ofa clerk filing the report.

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

I do not know. Soviet report was written on January 3, 1945, while serial numbers of the downed German plane became 'accessible' to the soviets by January 1, 1945 - so theoretically it had to be down by that day. I assume on the 3rd the soviet clerks still knew if it happened 'yesterday', or the day before. Perhaps German record was filed later wrongly for January 2nd? I have no idea... but it's not a big deal. The hour is clear: 13:00 PM right at, or after lunch, so it was not an 'uncertain', night loss, that's for sure.

Gabor

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

Maybe the wreckage was found a few days after the shoot-down.

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

The loss report must have been filed few days later, when it was confirmed, that the missing aircraft failed to return. I guess the wrong date may originate from the loss return send by the unit. After all, it was of not much importance.

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

I have attached the NVM for Heintz. As you see, the date 2nd Jan 45 was reported twice. He was MIA.

Summarische Verlustmeldungen ("Strichlisten") for I./SG 10 have one Fw 190 MIA on 1st Jan 45 and one lost due to flak on the 2nd Jan 45. Does not help much.:confused:

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

Loss of Fw 190F-8, W.Nr.: 583603 from soviet perspective. See details of date & time of event in soviet report.
Gabor

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

The German loss report was not issued on the day of loss,just only a day or so later, when it was verified that the missing aircraft failed to return to own lines, and did not land eg.on another airfield. Hence there were plenty of occassions to make an error. I guess that it may originate from the original report of SG 10, for some reason misdtated, and then repeated in summary losses. The one should verify that with original records of SG 10 like mission record, but I guess those do not exist.

Re: Lost Fw 190 with numbers in soviet record
 

You are probably right. If the initial report had an error, then it was carried on in all further copies/summaries, suggesting the correct date, but in fact all of them were wrong.

Gabor