Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay there is a photo of a R.E.8 of B Flight 5 Squadron RAF at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-Royal...8AAOSw-2xeqD4r


The aircraft appears to have a doners dedication forward of the cockpit something No.15. Can anyone read it ?


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hi Clint

Tricky one!

There were as far as I can locate only three presentation groups which both reached 15 and used RE.8, Baroda (India), Gold Coast and Zanzibar.

Since we have one single word only Baroda and Zanzibar are applicable

Next problem is that the presentation was re-used on more than one aircraft
Baroda No 15: A3704, C2252 and C2986
Zanzibar No 15: B5012, F1586

Final problem is that I cannot locate any of them with No 5Sq.
However photo was taken in Sep 1918 which means most likely a late production aircraft is the one we are looking for which gives us two choices

1) Baroda No 15 C2986 which is only listed as with 1 AAP (whatever that was)
2) Zanzibar No 15 F1586 no unit.
Since F1586 seems to have been built late 1918 and no record of it until 1.1.1919 my guess (mind you guess :) ) would thus be C2986

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Thanks Stig,


I like your reasoning. Absent any countervailing evidence C2986 seems the likely candidate. I've just checked an AB publication and AAP equals Aircraft Acceptance Park. I wonder if its possible to deduce whether 5 Squadron received its aircraft from 1 AAP? Were they geographically close?



I'm equally curious but what is the point in having more than one Baroda No.15? or of course any other duplications. Was it to replace earlier lost examples of presentation aircraft of the same name perhaps? I'll have to check the AB site myself in a moment and see if A3704 & C2252 were lost.


Edit



Having just checked AB for the serials A3704 was lost, so that fits, but if 1 AAP was the first destination for C2986 and the date given was 01.12.1918 that rules out C2986 too as on the back of the photo the date is September, so perhaps C2252 after all?


Next edit


Scratch that. No reason to suppose C2252 ever served with 5 Squadron.




Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Well Clint

I use that site myself a lot when it comes to British aircraft but it is no better than the details located.

Lots of details are missing.
I don't know when any of the aircraft in the C batch actually were delivered to RFC/RAF but surely it must have been earlier than Dec 1918?
Anyway I chose C2986, since C2282 was with No 52 Sqn all its active life.
(There is of course the possibillity that the text on the flip side is faulty. After all 5 vs 52 is not an impossible mistake)

1AAP was based in Coventry-Radford while both No 5 and No 52 Sqds were in France, so no obvious connection there.

Also the reasoning behind presentation aircraft in WW 1 and WW 2 were quite different. In WW 1 when a country or individual had paid for an aircraft that aircraft (and its name) should always be in use. So if one aircraft was w/o for any kind of reason, the name was transferred over to another aircraft. During WW 2 the reasoning was different and if an aircraft crashed that name was "gone for ever".

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay a photo of RE.8 C2926 of 5 Squadron seemingly named High Spen at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-Royal...gAAOSwKW5euDaX


Seemingly the seller is implying that it is the same aircraft as #1 in this thread, if I understand the reference to the 6th image correctly. But they are clearlt two different aircraft although both of 5 Squadron.



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Clint

I think the seller only wants to draw the attention to the fact it is the same crew.

Odd name though....

Chers
Stig

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Stig,


I looked up High Spen. It was a mining village. Perhaps the pit owners donated money for the aircraft and named it after the town and colliery?

Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Even more odd Clint

None of my sources mention any gift aircraft from that village.
Perhaps someone with No 5 Squadron had his origins from stated place?

From what I can recall that would also be very unusual since personal markings was not common, was it?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hi Stig,


I wonder if the owners of the mine also donated aircraft named after other colleries that they owned? You mention sources, any indication that any other RFC/RAF aircraft named after mining villages at all? Purest supposition on my part and there may be nothing to it. But given the social background of the people from High Spen at the time would it be likely any would become a pilot?


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Difficult to say without going through all of them.

Checking those donated from Great Britain, there were some that certainly came from cities/towns and so on.

If I had been an expert on smaller villages and the like in UK, I would have been in a much better position to evaluate all the names for you, but sorry, I am not :)

Also the aircraft itself C2926 is not listed as a presentation aircraft!

Although social background was (and still is) important if you wanted to be an officer, RFC and later RAF needed far more pilots than the upper classes could produce. I have not studied the subject, but surely there must have been a large number from, should we say, the working classes who became pilots?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay another named example of a 5 Squadron R.E.8 C2731 East Grinstead at:


ttps://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-R-E-8-WWI-Biplane-Black-White-Photographic-PRINT-East-Grinstead-rare/202990168451?hash=item2f43282983:g:TzEAAOSw8-5evDRp


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.2b B487 at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/30356801887...AAAOSwwu5eveZF


Also shown is a Handley Page in civilian markings.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Nice shots Clint

The FE2b typifies what is basically known about it....nothing (well almost)

It was allocated to the units in France 30.10.1917.
However that allotment was cancelled 24.11.1917 and the aircraft was handed over to something called E1 Repair Section. After that...nothing.... :)

The Handley Page must be G-EASO which was registered in April 1920 and was last heard of trying to make a first return flight from India to UK in May. The flight was cancelled and the aircraft was dismantled. It probably never even went to India. Officially its registration was canx in April 1921, but I doubt the aircraft "lived" that long.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hi Stig,


Thanks. So two barely used aircraft in fact. How strange that they should both turn up in the same collection.


With regard to B487 and more generally, do I correctly deduce from your text that aircraft were first transferred to a centre in France and only subsequently assigned to a squadron?


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Well Clint

The FE2 book I have does not explain (at least not readily) what this E1 Repair Section was. From the sound of it (the word Section) makes it into some kind of sub-unit. Could have been in some kind of Depot, or M.U. of some sort, perhaps even a training unit.

From the sound of it, its allocation to France was canx, I doubt it ever went overseas, not even to France. From found documents it is never listed as going into any kind of squadron service. It just disappeared, perhaps mangled by hamfisted erks?? :)

If anyone can advise what this E1 Repair Section was I would be very greatful!

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are photos of:


Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.8 A4874 of 40 Squadron at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/i118-German...sAAOSw9z1cBD1C


and


Royal Aircraft Factory S.E.5a of 25 Squadron at :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-Aircr...oAAOSwzclev3Xb




Not sure if the latter is in fact original.

Regards,

Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Clint

Nice new photo of the well photographed claim by Schäfer on 9 March 1917.
Just within my price range too....one million here....one million there.....:rolleyes:

The SE.5A however is just out from the Wolsley's factory in March 1918. I have not seen exactly this shot before, but at least one other was taken that same day.
Also, which you know, the aircraft was later used by No 24 Sq (your 25 is one of those moments when our fingers don't obey our minds.... :) )

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hi Stig,


Yes, thankfully we don't have to pay for just looking! and this is the second week I've seen stuff by that seller and both weeks he's had some really nice photos. I just hope that at some stage he reposts earlier photos I wasn't aware of at the time, I note the F.E8 is coded by the seller i118.Breaks my heart to think that there might have been 100 plus I've missed. Moreover as you say not cheap. But having said that compared to the FEA 5 photo album - initially on sale for 150 euros, and soon bid on accordingly, the next time I looked to try to get a better view of the photos, up to 80 euros and now gone. Just glad I saw what I needed to before it disappeared.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of a Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.2b at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/RPPC-Real-P...MAAOSwAM5eyXW3


It has a skull & crossbon marking on the nose a personal marking or a squadron marking (100 Sq perhaps?)


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are photos of Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2c 2715 of 15 Squadron at:


https://www.ebay.it/itm/WW1-Aeroplan...sAAOSwpWJeylIn


A further B.E.2 variant at:


https://www.ebay.it/itm/WW1-Aeroplan...UAAOSwSnZeylEw



Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.2b at:


https://www.ebay.it/itm/Vintage-WW1-...QAAOSwh9deykZX


https://www.ebay.it/itm/Vintage-WW1-...MAAOSwaL5eykhP


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Clint

With regard to the BE.2 2715 from where do you get 15Sq?
Our usual source says nothing, so you must have some other ace up your sleeve?

Also any idea why they painted the serial number twice on the fin? Just in case the rudder should fall off?? :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hi Stig,


Not really an ace per se. I just did an internet search and came up with this:


http://holum.net/snhweb/gen/squadron15.htm


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Thanks Clint

Yep, that's one way of doing it....:o

I checked their source, and I am not going to dispute the findings of John D.R. Rawlings

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Stig,


If I'm not in a rush, and that depends on the number of photos to check I'll usually try to find the unit, unhappily all sources as we both know are not quite as reliable as that one, so good to be questioned by you on my source and no :o necessary.


Of course where there are more photos to post (like yesterday) my quality control can suffer so even more important to be questioned then.



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a nice photo of Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2a Serial 226 at:


https://www.ebay.fr/itm/RPPC-AVIATIO...wAAOSwBTxezMuy


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay a better series of photos of the first aircraft in this thread Royal Aircraft Factory R.E.8 C2986 of B Flight 5 Squadron RAF at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW1-Royal...AAAOSwztRezSVH



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Interesting to see that I got things right back then....

Not too spoiled with that....

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Stig,


Yes I was pleased to see that too. Though I don't think you being correct has the rarity value you suggest.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on Delacampe is a photo of Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2 serial number 206 at:


https://www.delcampe.net/en_GB/colle...156489191.html


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2a 217 of 2 Squadron at:


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RP-Postca...sAAOSwwqxe0Mt5



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.12 6549 of 19 Squadron in German hands at :


https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-9-Flieg...MAAOSw8Sde1sOY


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2a serial 220 at:


https://www.ebay.it/itm/RPPC-AVIATIO...4AAOSwZEde0-vr



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2e A1375 of 14 Squadron at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Photo...kAAOSwNp1e2l34


Also another B.E.2 which I've included for the caption on the rear:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Photo...cAAOSw6JJe2l7y



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

A very stoic looking camel (dromedary)
I wonder why the text Sopwith Camel was struck out on the flip side?
If not it would have been a quite unique Camel....a four legged one.... :D

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a close up photo of Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.2b 6937 Punjab 29 Rawalpindi at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/MILITARY-WW...MAAOSwdPle3Ayu


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2c serial 997 of the RNAS at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mdv-63-Avia...sAAOSwpZhe3Vp2


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2c 2008 of 8 Squadron RFC post combat at:


https://www.ebay.de/itm/orig-Foto-1-...YAAOSwsFZe4gTe


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of RAF B.E.2c 2577 of 50 Squadron at:



https://www.ebay.it/itm/Foto-Fotogra...0AAOSwD4Je5Ph2


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2e captioned as 14 Squadron ,but may be 23RS? at:


https://www.ebay.it/itm/Small-Photog...gAAOSw--Ne75mZ


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photos Royal Aircraft Factory Aircraft
 

The same seller has some other much more indifferent photos which he also claims to be from 14th Squadron.

Since they fit in, I have really no reason to doubt the statement.

Cheers
Stig