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Re: Photos + 8-29
Me 262's are with most likely with KG 51.
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Re: Photos + 8-29
Hi,
this Fw 189 has different u/c and engines than usual. Any idea about the sub-type ? http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=230019282611 Von Alles |
Re: Photos + 8-29
Hi All
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=190021542567 Anyone who can ID this one and what it was doing in Poland? Cheers Stig |
Re: Photos + 8-29 - Me 262
Ed,
Based on my study of the photograph – and related aircraft from KG 51, I think that it is possible that the aircraft is question is this one: WNr.170093: Call sign KP+OU. Me 262 A-2a. Lt. Wilhelm Batel, the Gruppe Technical Officer of I./KG 51 made a 29 minute flight at Lechfeld on 18 September 1944, taking off at 17:50. He flew it again the next day from 14:03 to 14:17. Hptm. Hans-Christoff Buttmann of Kommando Schenk 3./KG 51, flying out of Rheine, was killed during a combat mission on 5 October 1944, when he bailed out at 100 ft. (30 m.) after being shot down within five miles of Nijmegen, by a Spitfire IXB of 401 RCAF at 15:00 UK time. Probably part of a five way shared claim, including Flight Lt. Robert Monroe Davenport, Squadron Leader Hedley Joseph Everard, and Squadron Leader Roderick Illington Alpine Smith, all from No. 401 Squadron, RCAF. A different account is mentioned in A.I.2(g) Report #256, where it states that he bailed out at 2,000 feet, but his parachute failed. It also mentioned that the aircraft was camouflaged in 76 undersides, and ‘mottled green’ upper surfaces, with yellow tips. It had carried two MK 108 cannon (the other 2 gun ports were plugged with wood) and two bomb racks. It crashed in a very boggy field, creating a 30 by 12 foot hole. The report also stated that the unit code was 9K+BK. The apparent code was '9K+BL'. (Source: “Me 262 Production Log”, Dan O’Connell, Classic, 2005) The camouflage of this aircraft, based on what is visible on parts of the tail, appears to have a meandering overspray of a dark colour over a pre-existing scheme. This was a common scheme to KG 51 at that time with the overspray most probably unit/field-applied using either dark green 83 or 71. The original scheme appears as a lighter shade representing the early standard using the two greys 74 and 75, but this was wholly unsuitable for bombers and a period where ground concealment was necessary to address the effects of increasing Allied air superiority. An excellent example of this scheme is the closely-related aircraft that is the subject in a short but well recognized cine sequence: “9K+we.BH”, WNr.170096 of 1./KG 51 photographed at Rheine in the fall of 1944. It is interesting that in the above claim report, the pilot describes the aircraft as having “yellow tips”. This feature is not attributed to a particular part of the aircraft and could be referring I./KG 51s practice of painting the top of the tail and nose in the appropriate staffel colour. Regarding the location, either Juvincourt or Rheine is possible, but if the aircraft identification is correct, then it would have to be the latter. The background vegetation certainly looks to retain its leaves suggesting summer to mid-autumn time frame but no later. The loss occurred in early October, so this period would match the observed vegetation attributes in the photo. So: Me 262 A-2a, “9K+ge.BL”, WNr.170093, 3./I./KG 51. Comments and thoughts appreciated. Cheers, David |
Re: Photos + 8-29
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My God, Sergio, please!
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Re: Photos + 8-29
David,
Thank you for your detailed reply. I have little knowledge in this area. My only hope when I find photos like this is that they are new and not showing well known aircraft or reproductions. Regards, Ed |
Re: Photos + 8-29 - Me 262
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Re: Photos + 8-19
Dear All,
With 6 days to go on this auction of the Me 262 photo, the bid is already up to 334 Euro. It will be interesting to see where in the stratosphere it ends up. Regards, Richard |
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Von Alles |
Re: Photos + 8-19
No, I think now it was a RWD 5
Von Alles |
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Because R.W.D. is as much a Czech company as Avia is a Polish one :wave:
AAAaahhhhhhhhhh... just a small mistake...:evil2: |
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Robert, to make things even more complicated, there was an aviation firm Avia in Poland but it did not bulid aircraft, just parts for them. ;)
Sergio, still there is one thing, that you should know about that little aircraft. ;P |
Re: Photos + 8-19
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Yes, the first Polish aircraft to cross the Atlantic and the smallest aircraft to cross the Atlantic ever. Something in size of Piper Cub to make it more graphic.
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Thanks Guys
BOTH for giving the correct answer and me a great laugh. Nice to see we can be friendly on these pages as well. For myself, I still cannot understand how I could miss seing the RWD-5 in Cynk's Putnam book. Went through the RWD types twice....:o No more 20-20 vision I'm afraid.... Cheers Stig |
Re: Photos + 8-19
Well guy´s on previous page...
(qoute):´and the smallest aircraft to cross the Atlantic ever. Something in size of Piper Cub to make it more graphic.´(end of qoute) Many smaller aircraft than the Piper Cub/Super-Sub have made the crossing, Rutan Varieze´s, Long-ezes, Torp T18, even microlights have tavelled over the Northern Route, one Cessna 150 without extra tanks have come here. Then at least two motor-gliders... But the smallest? Smallest winspan? Smallest T/O weight? Smallest engine? Smallest pilot? So please be careful in using the word ´smallest´ or ´ever´ as there has happenend a lot since the thirties.... :) cheers ed |
Re: Photos + 8-19
Ed
This should read over SOUTH Atlantic, sorry. The aircraft was approx. 10m wingspan, 7m lenghth, full weight 1100kg, 754l fuel, engine 120hp. The pilot was also not very big, he failed to return from a night bombing mission to Germany in 1942. |
Re: Photos + 8-19
David,
Regarding the 262 destroyed by 401 RCAF on October 5, 1944, this was the first claimed jet victory by Commonwealth air forces. The pilots involved were: S\L Roderick Illingsworth Alpine Smith, F\L's Everard and Davenport, and F\O's Sinclair and MacKay. I had the good fortune to get to know Rod Smith well, and we often discussed this encounter. Detailed accounts of this combat can also be found in Hedley Everard's book, "A Mouse in my Pocket". |
Re: Photos + 8-19
Hi, All.
This is Steinhoff's "In Letzer Stunde" japanese language version. Me262 photo is looks like same photo. Original is more widely... |
Re: Photos + 8-19
To me Isao is correct. I also guess this very same image has been published in other books and even was sold long time ago at eBay. Must scroll all the images I have stored to confirm it but still sounds familiar to me. Maybe high value is the fact it´s an original photo, high value for colectors.
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Of course, given that the Me 262s are carrying bombs, they could belong to Kommando Schenck...
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re smallest aircraft to have crossed the Atlantic. I believe that the missing but very important word is "non-stop".
I agree that we have some a long way, and there may well be another contender, but I don't know what it is. |
Re: Photos + 8-19
Re Fw189. Also have an image of Fw189B with same engine.
Mike W |
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My translation of the description of the Me 262 photo is that it is from the estate of RKT with diamonds, Walter Nowotny, making it more valuable.
Ed |
Re: Photos + 8-19
Somehow lots of those photos on Ebay remind me of the fellow that paid a small fortune for a very rare ancient coin. One of the oldest coins there ever found. When asked how he was positive it was not a fake, and how he authenticated it before paying out all that money he replied that the coin was very clearly marked with the date 12 B.C.
Couldn't resist posting that story. |
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Very good one, Flitzer! :D
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Hi Flitzer,
very good, took me a few seconds..... John |
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Holá Flitzer,
what an uproar here between my colleagues and it hits right the point. Lets enjoy those incidents in the future with humour. Cheers hihotte |
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