Numerals on rudders
 

I have a number of photos which show bombers with numerals on their tail. For example, Do 217 M-1, Wk Nr 56125, U5+UK has the number 2 on the tail-they are not training aircraft but front line aircraft so is 2 for 2 Staffel or 2 for KG 2? Or am I missing something really obvious.......

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

Most of the photos of a/c with large white numerals on the tail (and sometimes on the upper wing also) are mostly a/c from the IVth Gruppe(Erganzungsgruppe) but these numbers can indeed also be seen on a/c from the other 3 Gruppe.

In my opinion this can mean 2 things:
- a Gruppe that temporarily was redrawn from frontline service applied these numerals during training. Most specifically during formation flights.
- Experienced pilots that were temporarily reallocated to the IVth Gruppe to pass on their knowledge, brought their “own” a/c with them.

I have seen numerals in the #50 & #60 range so they have nothing to do with the Staffel. I was always (untill now) under the impression that these were the 2 last digits of the WNr.

https://i.ibb.co/9tPGd33/200220a.jpg

Hope this helps.

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

56125/U5+UK was damaged in an accident 7 Sep 43 after which it became 56125/U5+CT and lost 20 Apr 44 so highly unlikely it went to IV./KG 2 in between.

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

Some Ju88s from KSG.1 and 3 had white rudder numbers eg. 9 and 6 when they became KG.101 in Feb. 1943 and were coded "V3"; these must have been used in training. 2. and 3. Staffeln had them.
Also KG200 had several Mistels in 1945 with numbers maybe ex. 101 ?
Nick

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

Like this? I have now two examples of 2./KG 2 with '2' on the tail

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

On the mistels/ln, these number corresponded to some production number, in the docs refered as RWxxx, or at least.. used to paire the Ju nd the Fw planes



Rémi

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

Chris. Was one of your 2 photos a Do.217M in night camouflage with white "2", plus 2 narrow bands on the tail cone? Caption says Jan.1944 , from 2./KG2 operating against England.
These are Do.217Es from KG2 , note no."7" on rear one; if this is III.Gruppe maybe 7.Staffel but that's a guess.The yellow stripe would be III.Gruppe but the emblem is Geschwader (Holzhammer) not Gruppe.
Nick

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

The aircraft with number 7 I can see 8 before the cross. It should belong to II/KG 40 .

Eduardo.

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

Never seen those markings on II./KG 40 and here is the photo in question

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

Hi Chris

The old Warpaint Series No. 24 on the Do 217, by Jerry Scutts, includes side profiles of Do 217 M-1s U5+LK and U5+DK of 2./KG 2. Both are shown with the same camouflage as the image you have and have the '2' on the tail fin. Both are captioned for Operation Steinbock in October 1944. U5+DK also has the two tail-rings.

Perhaps operation-specific markings for 2./KG 2 during Steinbock?

Not definitive I know!

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

Chris this is the 217M I was thinking of; maybe same plane? January would put in in Steinbock ( I thought it ended in May).
Regards
Nick

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

My photo was taken the previous year-look at the weather. This ac was damaged in September 1943 and then repaired and rejoined 9./KG 2 to be lost in April 1944. Yes, Steinbock was all but over by May 1944

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

Chris,

Page 169 of "The Last Blitz" (Mackay/Parry) has a photo of U5+DK with the "2" on the starboard fin.
The story of this aircraft and crew appears from page 166. This aircraft was engaged by AA fire and the crew bailed out, landing at Wembley, while the aircraft flew on to crash in allotments in Cambridge.

The picture did not scan well - http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/pictur...&pictureid=701

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

Hi Chris

Back to you original question, the numeral '2' does seem to indicate 2. Staffel aircraft. Why they were marked like this is less clear.

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

Still not convinced! Then we have this taken in 1942 which is U5+GK or GS

Re: Numerals on rudders
 

Think I have come to the bottom of this. In a full K report dated 5 Jan 44:


"Staffel colours are no longer used in I./KG 2 but that white rings, some 5-6 cms wide, are painted around the fuselage aft of the tail unit. One ring denoting 1 Staffel, two second and three the third. In addition to these rings, there are markings on the rudder to denote the individual aircrfat. POW had C-2-K on his aircrfat, the letters CK being the last two of U5+CK and the 2 which was larger that the letters denoting 2 Staffel."