Fw 190F-9 canopy question
 

Hi everyone,

I am currently corresponding with a Schlachtflieger who flew with SG 9 during 1944 and 1945 on the Eastern front. In connection with this I have a photo of the Fw 190F-9 that he flew, showing the engine section of the aircraft. The cockpit is not showing and that is what my question concerns. The issue is that he claims it had a flat canopy and not the blown hood that I automatically would imagine this type had. I assume he knows with a fair amount of certainty that it was an F-9 and not F-8 he flew as he was a technical officer.

I basically take his statement for true, but I am interested in hearing opinions about this issue. Also, he states that he saw no aircraft while flying with SG 9 having this type of canopy.
Does anyone have information/photos of F-9s with a flat canopy? Any comments, leads or information will be greatly appreciated.

Furthermore, does anyone know if the flat and blown hood canopies were interchangeable?

Kind regards,
Morten

Morten
Such minor modifications like tail unit or canopy do not constitute a new version - I suppose they were more less interchangeable anyway. The key difference between -8 and -9 was the power unit and it is teh only mean of identification.
BTW
Where in particular 'your' veteran has served?

That is interesting information! I thought all the x-9s had this new blown canopy. They were of course interchangable. It is well known that the types produced at the end of war were equipped with whatever was just available on stock.
Does the photo you have show new propeller with wide blades or standard VDM one?

Thanks for your replies - much appreciated!
The aircraft has the standard VDM propeller, although it is a bit trick from the angle the photo is taken. I have included the picture below.

http://www.jessen-it.dk/images/wenk_Fw190_engine.jpg

The pilot in question is Helmut Wenk, who is providing information about his service during the summer 1943 in the Mediterranean, in connection with the sequel to the Fw 190 in North Africa book that Andrew Arthy and I are working on.

I have not inquired about this late war career in detail, but I will at a later time once we get on with our current material. He served in Sicily and Italy until he crash landed on 14 August 1943. Wenk lay in hospital until the end of 1943 and was only conditionally suited to flying after this. He was transferred to a Nachtschlachtgruppe on the Eastern Front and flew mission in the winter of 1943/1944 at night and day with Ar 66s and other unarmed biplanes (usually nuisance attacks with incendiary bombs). Later on he was transferred to SG 9 and flew Fw 190.

Cheers,
Morten

Morten
Indeed the shot is quite misleading, I am not going to guess.
Do you know in what particular area Wenk flew in the Spring 1945? 1 PLM of so called Polish People's Air Force had a few combats with Fs in April 1945 and I am curious if he flew against them.
Concerning Italian Campaign, are you already researching September combats?

Fw 190 F-9
 

Actually, either the narrow metal or wide wooden props could be installed in any of these machines. The metal props gave a higher level speed, so would probably be more appropriate for the Schlacht gruppen. The wooden props gave a better climb speed, so were preferred for interceptors. One report on the Fw 190 D/Ta 152, gives a value of -6kph for the wooden props relative to the metal props in max. level flight. Oh yes, one of these was about twice as heavy as the other, but, away from my reference material I forget which.

The comment on photo about the underwing racks for rockets is interesting. For what rockets would these be used, the PB1?

F-9?
 

Hi Morten:

What few losses I have for SG 9 are all F-8 machines. IIRC, very few F-9s were issued, mainly because the A-9 when properly fitted would do the same job. There are one or two photos of what appear to be F-9s fitted with the Pb 8. These appear to have been assigned to SG 2 or 10. Interestingly, these appear to have non-blown canopies. Recall that even the A-9 could be fitted with a non-blown canopy.

You did not mention it, but does he not have his Flugbuch?

Glad you guys are working on more books! :D

Hi Franek,
I cannot help with information concerning what area he flew in, in 1945. I will ask him in my next letter.

What makes you state that the photo is misleading?? Is it because not much can be "read" from the picture or is it because you see leads to contradiction arguments regarding version?

I am currently writing up Ultra material for September '43 - quite interesting stuff :) ... so it is still in a very rough state.

Hi George: Thanks for your comments! I believe it was the R4M rocket. He drew me the drawing below.

http://www.jessen-it.dk/images/rocket.jpg

Wenk wrote the following to a rocket drawing (from Aero Detail 6, p. 67) I mailed him: "The R4M rockets were grey all over and the head was not so conical and pin-pointed, but more parabolic with a little knob being the detonator. I have tried to make a sketch"
Any comments?

Hi John: I believe he has all his Flugbücher, but I have not inquired about the late war ones ... yet! Focusing on the Mediterranean material!
... glad to know someone is looking forward to see our next material ;-)

Cheers,
Morten

Morten
I mean that from those angle I cannot say with any certainity what kind of prop it is.

Well.. is it possible that they were using some different rockets, not the R4M? Because they looked like this:
http://home.att.net/~jv44/images/r4m_detail.jpg
Top - armour piercing warhead; Bottom - high explosive warhead
Did he said how many were carried at once?

Is there any way how to see from outside from this view if it is using TS or D-2 engine?
And in which units did F-9s serve? SG 2 and 10 were already mentioned as well as SG 9. I have read somewhere that in III./JG 54 some F-9 were serving, equipped with panzeblitz rockets.

@ Zamex:

The second picture of the rocket type possibly shows the converted type of the "Panzerblitz" as ammunition to be used by German a/c. It was adapted by the ammunition-type, the German Bazooka called "Panzerschreck" used.

Nonetheless the first rocket - for My eyes - only shows the R4M type. Reference pic above (the underwing installation front-photograph) simply is kind of propaganda - a mostly and well spreaded photograph without giving the ability of a real outlook at least. I've seen some photgraphs of still existing examples of the R4M rockets before. And the warhead indeed, shown in Your posting as well, is the common one, and really was used by the Luftwaffe as air-to-air-missile.

Hopefully this may be of some help.

Kind regards
y/s

Norbert

Interesting shot since it´s among few ones that shows the spinner spiral going on the blades. Very nice. In this case the white areas on the blades do not looks to follow the spiral pattern but may produce a white circle. A pity no photo from a better angle is available.

Good point Sergio !

And this white circle seems to be same color as the engine cowl lip, perhaps that's his staffel color ?

East Front marking
 

I find it interesting that the a/c doesn't appear to have the Yellow band around the cowling, which AFAIK was standard for East Front units in 1945.

look carefully at the oil cooler armored ring, IMHO its clearly lighter than the RLM 76 engine cowling bottom half, could be either white or more likely yellow (looks a little different from the spinner and prop light color).

IF it is the same color, it is interesting as well since the prop circle placing and oil cooler ring coincide. Might be some new kind of tactical marking to aide head on identification.

George...
 

...the yellow ring around the cowling was NOT standard for Eastern Front units, only those assigned to what was left of Luftflotte 4 after March 17, 1945.

I have checked old good Japo booklet and it notes that in the last days of April 1945 Wenk flew Fw 190F-9/R1 with III/SG1. Perhaps transferred from SG9?

Those cowling rings
 

According to David E. Brown, in the thread about "Color bands on Fw 190A" on AWF and referencing an Ultra decrypt of Sep 44, the cowling ring, 40cm wide, was instituted by 25 Sept 44. But, as you said, John, it appears only to have been for units of Luftflotte 4.

Fw 190 rockets
 

John,
I have heard of the PB1, PB2, and PB3; but never of the PB8. Do you have any description of it?

Re: Fw 190F-9 canopy question
 

Hi,

I'll have to correct my friend Morten about Helmut Wenk's unit in the final months of the war. It was 9./S.G. 1, not S.G. 9.

As for the service history of the FW 190 F-9, here's a little bit of information I have put together, which I hope is of interest.


The Focke-Wulf 190 F-9 entered production and service in January 1945. It was built in five, or possibly six, Werk Nummer blocks. A total of at least 330 aircraft were completed, although the actual figure is higher than this. In January 1945 147 FW 190 F-9s were built.

The following are known FW 190 F-9 W.Nr blocks:

420 ...
424 ...
426 ...
428 ...
440 ...

Most of the known FW 190 F-9 losses occurred with Schlacht units from Luftflotte 4 and Luftflotte 6.

The first loss of an FW 190 F-9 that I am aware of occurred on 22 January 1945, when W.Nr 424 110 of I./S.G. 77 belly-landed and suffered 90 per cent damage. The pilot, Lt. Gerhard Bause, was injured.

Units for which there is evidence that they operated the FW 190 F-9 include:

I./S.G. 1, Stab S.G. 2, II./S.G. 2, II./S.G. 3, I./S.G. 4, I./S.G. 4, III./S.G. 4, I./S.G. 10, II./S.G. 10, III./S.G. 10, Stab S.G. 77, I./S.G. 77, II./S.G. 77, III./S.G. 77, I./S.G. 151

Cheers,
Andrew A.