Robert Spreckels
 

Hi guys,
Just finished re-reading Bob Braham's excellent "Scramble" and the thought occured to me not a lot is known about the guy who shot him down in 1944, (Robert Spreckels), apart from what is mentioned in the book text.

The Kracker archives is limited and a search regarding units served, combat claims etc. throws up little further information.

Can anyone fill in the gaps?

Thus far Spreckels appears to have served with JG1 in 1942 and then JG 11 mid 1943 onwards. Magnus quotes 12 victories while Bowers/Lednicer quotes 21 victories, whle other references state 44 claims. Only 8 are logged in surviving Luftwaffe records, with reportedly 6 heavies ?

He was shot down or force landed four times, including during Bodenplatte.

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

I also tried to find out more about Spreckels a few years ago after re-reading Braham's book.

I'll admit, I got sidetracked rather quickly, so this is about the only thing I found with more info on him:

https://www.airmen.dk/p327.htm

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Harry

Checking Johannes Mathews, he could only come up with four claims by Spreckels when je published his Aces Vol 4. Two B-17 and two Mosquitoes.
Since he is only known to have served with JG 1 and JG 11, I find both 21 and 44 claims quite impossible. Even 12 claims sounds a bit too much.

Can you expand on which 8 claims are logged in surviving Luftwaffe records?
From the data at hand, it seems you thus have records of four additional 4-engined aircraft. Which were they and where are they recorded?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

The cranstonfinearts site shows the following for Spreckels

22-3-1943 B-17 8/JG 1
13-5-1944 B-17 JG11
19-5-1944 B-17 JG 11
16-6-1944 Mosquito JG11
25-6-1944 Mosquito JG11

It also has quotes the total of 21 victories could this be 21 points rather han actual victories ?

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Hi, I have this:

1. Ls 1.8.42 Boston 30 km W.Helgoland
2. 22.3.43 B17 HSS N.Texel
3. 25.6.43 B17
4. 25.6.43 B17 HSS
5 13.5.44 B17
6. 19.5.44 B17
7. 16.6.44 Mosquito
8. 25.6.44 Mosquito
9th and 10th Ls. June-September 1944 on the Eastern Front.

Regards Tony

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Hi Stig,
This is what I've found thus:

Claim 1/ 1 August 1942 (8.JG1) "Boston " 30 km. W. Helgoland 17-56 hours;
No obvious matches, though looking at JG1's 1942 coastal encounters the "Boston" may be a Beaufort or a Beaufighter/Blenheim type from Coastal Command. Uffz Karl Bugaj 11./JG 1 shot down Mosquito DK308 of 105 Sqn. North of Langeoog at 13:18 hrs that same day.



Claim 2/ 22 March 1943 (8.JG 1) B-17HSS Texel.
76 B-17's and 26 B-24's against Wilhelmshaven, losing 1 B-17 and 2 B-24's with 12 B-17s and 10 B-24's damaged. All 4 of JG1 gruppen flew two missions. JG 1 claimed 6 bombers ; 2 B24s and 4 B17s.


Claim 3 & 4/ 25 June 1943 Two B-17s ( now with 2. JG 11; 9.05 and 9.27 hours)
275 B-17's in scattered attacks on targets of opportunity in NW Germany when Bremen and Hamburg are obscured; 18 B-17's lost, Luft claimed 21, the 34 aircraft of JG11 claimed 12 of these (Stab claimed 2, I/JG 11 claimed 5 0812-0930 hours, II/JG 11 claimed 5). I/ JG 11 lost 2 FW190s (1 KIA).


We now have a big gap (maybe he as wounded in 1943?) to-


Claim 5/ 13 May 1944 B17 over Norway, with 'Alarmstaffel Aalborg' (ex 10.JG11)

749 bombers and 737 fighters hit targets in Germany; 12 bombers and 5 fighters lost; 289 B-17s dispatched to oil targets in W Poland; 10 bombers lost and 81 damaged. 199 B-17s dispatched to Osnabruck; 1 B-17 lost and 61 damaged; 261 B-24s to Tutow; 1 B-24 lost and 2 damaged; The most combats were with the escorts ; P-47s claimed 14-2-9, P-51s claimed 33-1-4; Luftwaffe lost 38 with 18 KIA. JG11 claimed 3 B-17s (Inc. Spreckels) 3 P-47s and 2 P-51s for 12 fighters lost, 6 KIA. Ops flown 1200-13-30 hours


claim 6/19 May 1944 B17 with 'Alarmstaffel Aalborg' (ex 10.JG11);
888 bombers and 700 fighters to Germany; 28 bombers and 19 fighters lost; fighters claim 77-0-33 : 588 B-17s to Berlin; 16 B-17s lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 289 damaged; 300 B-24s to Brunswick; 12 B-24s lost and 64 damaged; On outward journey I/JG11 claimed 5 B-24s, II/JG11 claimed 2 fighters for 12 losses. Return journey I/ JG 11 claimed a B24 HSS and III/JG 11 claimed 2 B-17s for no loss. Luft lost 68 fighters, 30 KIA.



claim7/ 16 June 1944 11.24 hours Mosguito S. Hadsünd, Denmark;
Mosquito FB.VI (NS913) “SM-T” of 305 Sqn (Pol) RAF S/L MJ. Herrick DFC&B and Navigator F/O A Turski (Pol)both KIA;


claim 8/ 25 June 1944 12.05 hours Mosquito Skjern/Jütland, Denmark;
Mosquito FB.VI (LR373) “YH-A” of 21 Sqn RAF W/C RJ Braham DSO&2B DFC&B and Navigator S/L DC Walch POW.


Spreckels is next referenced on 1 January 1945, when 41 Fw190s of Stab., I and III/JG 11 and 20 Bf109s of II/ JG11 took part in Bodenplatte, their target the airfield near Asch, Belgium, designated Y-29, hosting the 352nd FG and 366th FG. Some 30 of JG 11 attacked Ophoven (RAF 125 Wg) by mistake. A Squadron of the 366th was already airborne to attack ground targets in the Bulge. A Squadron from the 352nd was idling on the runway as approached, and was able to get all 12 aircraft off. A large dogfight then occurred at low altitude over the base. JG11 lost 24 planes (4 to AA) and 22 pilots for a claim of 11 Allied aircraft down. 352nd FG claimed 23, 366th FG claimed 8, AA claimed 7,

Obfw. Robert Spreckels 11./JG 11 was slightly wounded, returned in an FW190A-8 , belly landed near Aachen, shot up by 352nd FG P-51 or P-47 of the 366th FG.



His rank also seems to vary and is often quoted as a Leutnant. Strikes me if he did continue serving with JG 11 then further (unconfirmed or recorded) claims could be in early 1945 against the Soviets?

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Brian, Tony, Harry

Thanks, but what is (are) your source(s)?

I don't know what cranstonfinearts site can contribute to this topic, so please enlighten me.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

The Cranstonfinearts site contains brief profiles for pilots connected with the aviation prints it sells , the profile for Spreckels is just the victories I listed

regards
Brian Bines

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Thanks Brian
I made a brief check on the site but could not find Spreckels.
However, I am still back on square one, not knowing the origin of the data.
Johannes has gone through the microfilms, so maybe it is again an interpretation of the names listed?

I will ask Johannes to read this and check on Spreckels, if any new info has come to light after his book was published.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Stig try this - https://www.cranstonfinearts.com/aces.php?PilotID=1553

Scroll down for the Spreckels entry , click on the JG1 or JG11 in the white box on the left for a list of the units aces.

Regards
Brian Bines

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Hi Stig,
I have a list of air victories from this source:
Prien / Rodeike: Jagdgeschwader 1 und 11

Regards Tony

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Thanks Tony

That source is available to Johannes as well.
I have sent him an e-mail and wait for him to either answer me or straight to this topic.

I am pretty certain it is an interpretation of the microfilms which is the root of the problem.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

In the JFV volumes four claims by Spreckels are listed:
JFV 10/II
25 Jun 1943 2./JG 11 Uffz Robert Spreckels 1 B-17 09.07 hrs and 1 B-17 HSS 09.26 hrs
JFV 13/V
16 Jun 1944 Ausbildungsstaffel/JG 11 Fw Robert Spreckels 1 Mosquito 11.24 hrs
25 Jun 1944 Ausbildungsstaffel/JG 11 Fw Robert Spreckels 1 Mosquito 12.05 hrs

Regards
Leo

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Thanks Leo

I suspected that. This is exactly what Johannes also have in his book.
Repeating myself, I am pretty certain it all has to do with the interpretation of the microfilms in question.

Hopefully Johannes will get back to me/us with his interpretation.
I might add that Johannes also states 'at least' for these four claims and also mentions the possibillity of a further two against Soviet forces in 1945.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Thanks for the prompt Stig

Only four of Spreckles claims are found on the microfilms, so these should be considered as FACT:-

25th June 1943 B-17 at 7500 metres 0907 hrs
25th June 1943 B-17 at 7500 metres 0925 hrs

These were claimed as an Unteroffizier with 2./JG11. This Staffels earlier typed-out mikrofilms have not survived, but on 17th April 1943 it started listing on the daily claims mikrofilm for the West which ended on 5th December 1944. These are complete with the exception of those in January 1944, but are covered by the Staffels date and time only mikrofilm.

16th June 1944 Mosquito South of Hadsund at 600 metres 1124 hrs
25th June 1944 Mosquito Skjern area at only 25 metres and at 1205 hrs

Both of these were as a Feldwebel with Ast./JG11.

It is possible that he claimed prior to 17th April 1943 with 2./JG11, or with another Staffel, or after December 1944, and he is thought to have claimed two Sowiet aircraft during this latter time.

Date of Birth I have of 14th March 1943. Not much else known, but he has almost certainly died post war. Final rank Oberfeldwebel. For the reason listed above I did not number his claims....because of the possibility of previous claims to those listed.

Prien has done some superb work on multiple units, but sometimes used guesses for claims he had dates for i.e date and time given only, sometimes he was correct, sometimes he was not. Any claims other than the four he had previously listed within the time-frame 17th April 1943 until December 1944 will be incorrect, those previous to that date are guesses, and if he was incorrect during the time-frame ones, there is no reason to believe those prior would be correct as it would appear he is not working this case using Spreckles flugbuch or any other reliable source. Those Prien is correct with with other pilots is because he used a reliable source of some sort. Naturally there is always the possibility of unconfirmed claims during the time-frame.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Thanks Johannes

Very nice of you to answer my call for help.
I would say that this is all that can be proven, at least at this moment, and everything else (some clearly fantasy) can only be classified as unsubstantiated speculations,

Take Care
Cheers
Stig

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

I presume that should be 14 March 1923?? ;-)

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Also found this reference:
http://www.blitzgeschwader.de/kg3_do...fbs_201011.pdf
which notes Spreckels on page 191.
Not sure what it tells us as my German is non existant!!
JFS4 is I assume the flight school he attended, not sure of SFAR 24.

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

SFAR 24 was the abbreviation for Schule (= Flugzeugführerschule) Flieger Ausbildungsregiment 24.

Regards
Leo

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Hi

Regarding D.O.B, sorry senior moment, ment to say 1920.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Thanks for the information, fleshes out Spreckels' career a little more.

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

With Spreckels

I have never been able to find any loss for him, these usually explain long breaks in pilots claims due to wounds/injuries. But having scrutinizing many flugbücher what is clear is that they were nearly always busy, this might include a period of training, or as a trainer. Seems he is likely to have survived the war.

With his total claims, see my Kurt Ubben thread. The points system might very well explain why his known claims is so much smaller that his total given. Erik Mombeek gives a pretty concise explanation in a section about claims and how they were made/processed, and the points system in his latest publication "Luftwaffe Gallery" "Luck, Fate and Destiny", he uses the claims of Walter Loos as an example.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Braham met Spreckels after the war; in my 1961 version of "Scramble" (price 3/6!!) there is a pic of Mr and Mrs Braham with Mr and Mrs Spreckels- when Braham was posted to Europe by the RCAF.

Reviewing the book I've suddenly realised Spreckels also wrote the introduction to the 1961 edition.

He describes the fact that Braham was the 'third' Mosquito he had claimed.(?) He also mentions being in hospital "for a long time" after being shot down during Bodenplatte 1/1/45 (which brings into doubt any unconfirmed Soviet claims with JG11 Jan-Apr 1945?) and post 1945 returning to his pre-war job with a Hamburg shipping company. He mentions his parent's death in an Hamburg air raid too.

Braham mentions he first met Spreckels soon after capture and was introduced to his victor- a Leutnant and with 45 claims. There is also reference to Spreckels imminent move to the Normandy front as he asked Braham about the 'capability' of Spitfires.

Ironic that alot of what we know is from an Allied ace's biog.

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Hi Harryurz

Many thanks for your contribution.

Yesterday I specifically welt through the mikrofilm losses for the Luftwaffe for 01/01/1945, units are clumped together, but I went through the whole lot, and there is nothing for Spreckles.
However I do think now that it is unlikely that two Russian aircraft were claimed for this pilot. I think this is based solely on Prien's earlier JG1/JG11 publication, which also proclaims another two Russian aircraft in a period covered by the mikrofilms, and these are not recorded when they certainly would have been.

Refering again to Mombeek's "Luftwaffe Gallery, Luck, Fate and Destiny"...IBAN:978-2-930546-23-0 points system, Spreckles four "kills" would amount to nine points in theory, what is unknown is if this pilot finished-off or damaged any other aircraft.........you would thin so, these would have been awarded minor points, or even half points. So in my opinion Spreckles twelve "kills" is likely to be twelve "points". He had three points for the destruction of a "viermot" , two points for a "viermot" H.S.S and two points for each of the Mosquito's.

Spreckles claims in themselves are rather odd, all are quality aircraft, the destruction of a Mosquito was as revered as much as a "viermot".

Hopefully our losses expert Matti is reading this, his opinion on Spreckles being shot down and wounded during "Bodenplatte" would be final on that particular topic.

We could see if somebody has a late war photo of Spreckles and see if there is a wounded badge on him. One assumes that he would have been awarded the EK1, but again referring to Mombeek's book there was a second points system working(this was news to me), this awarded points though small for particular sorties, and fifty points for shooting down a single-engined fighter, so it's impossible to associate decorations with "kills" really.

Spreckles two Mosquito claims were with AST./JG11, I know nothing about his unit, but suspect they flew aircraft designed to combat these ellusive Mosquito's JG50 previously were assigned this task...unsuccessfully, but when dis-banded the pilots joined JG1/JG11.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Hi Johannes,


Thanks for your comments.

From an initial idle thought I had when re-reading "Scamble" it has become a fascinating exercise to try and piece together a pilot's career from 80 years ago!
I was intrerested to read Spreckels' own words in the book introduction, especially regarding the 26 June 1944 downing of Braham as his 'third Mosquito.'

Looking further though the JG 11 claim listings there is indeed a uncredited Mosquito claim by 10 staffel;


12.05.44 N.N. 10./JG 11 Mosquito  - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1208



This also matches with Braham's brush with fighters on this day. Braham/Gregory flew an 'Intruder' to the Skagerrat in a borrowed 107 sqdn Mosquito.

He sighted a 190 near Herning and chased it, but was in turn chased by a 109, which holed his fuel lines, before disappearing from view. Braham fired from a range of about 100 yards, knocking off the e/a's starboard elevator as well as parts from the cockpit. The engine caught fire, the e/a reared up and stalled, and after almost colliding with with the Mosquito, crashed about 10 miles from Aalborg. The tail section was seen by F/L Gregory to disintegrate and reported the Fw 190 crashed into a river bank. Over the North Sea due to the fuel damage he ran out of fuel 70 miles from Cromer and ditched near a convoy of three trawlers and was picked up (at 14:15 hrs) . 107 Sqn, based at Lasham, lost FB.VI NS885 "OM-B" missing on that date. (Air 25/40. Ops. Order from 2 Group HQ, 12. May 1944, issued by F/Lt. Riseley confirms.)

If indeed Spreckels did claim not two but three Mosquitoes, then there is a intriguing possibility is he may have shot Bob Braham down twice?



Comments anyone?

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

According to JFV 13/V the Ast/JG 11 was formed in mid May 1944 from parts of 10. and 11./JG 11 and disbanded on 25 Sep 1944, base Aalborg-Ost. Details on pages 140 and 141.
In the claims table of 10./JG 11 (JFV 13/V page 133) one confirmed Mosquito claim is listed:
7 Apr 1944 Uffz Georg Borkenhagen 11.58 PlQu. 05 Ost S/MQ 5.

Regards
Leo

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Additionally, according to https://www.airmen.dk/p327.htm Spreckels was at Aalborg May-June '44 to help convert bomber pilots to fly fighters.



This could suggest Spreckels was recognised as a competent instructor and maybe accounts for the large gaps between claims, if he was heavily involved with Ausbildungsstaffel/JG 11 during 1943-44?



Its a bit like clutching at straws, but who knows.....

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Spreckels own words.

Junker

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Hi Harryurz

I think that 10./JG11 was in the East at this time. JG50's aircraft were special Bf109's for extreme altitude, I just wonder if they went with there pilots to JG11. Could be they were scrambled for high altitude Mosquito's, but in each case these Mosquito's were shot-down at low altitude.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

I have not found any NVMs for Robert Spreckels.If he was shot down or made emergency landings four times, he obviously was never wounded, because no NVM was made.
In 1 Jan 1945 there were several aircraft of III./JG 11 lost without pilot's name. So, Spreckels could have been on one of them, but I have no means to confirm that.

Matti

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Hi matti,

In "Bodenplatte: The Luftwaffe's Last Hope : the Attack on Allied Airfields New Year's Day, 1945; John Manrho, Ron Putz. (Hikoki Publications, 2004) on page 164 it records "Ofw. Robert Spreckels of 11. Staffel managed to belly-land near Aachen and survived with minor injuries."

Reference lists "Scramble" page 12 for this information, where Spreckels himself says "I was shot down four times and if the last crash near Aachen on January 1 1945 had not kept me in hospital for a long time , I doubt if I should ever have seen Bob Braham again"

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

What I tried to say is that no NVM was ever made of his crashes, which means no or very minor injuries.

If his injuries on 1 Jan 1945 were minor, why he was kept in hospital for a long time?

Matti

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Could it be the NVM is missing or was never produced due to a mess?

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

With the pressure pilots were under, non combat related, gastric ulcer or something else?

Peter

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

One thing that does occur to me as he force-landed 'near Aachen';

The city was behind Allied lines by January 1945, so could he have conceivably been taken prisoner?

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Hi Guys

If Spreckles claims he was shot-down four times during the war, and we can find details of none, perhaps his statements should be considered unreliable, though it is quite likely that if he wasn't wounded or injured then the loss recorded only the aircraft loss/damage and the pilots details were not deemed important.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Robert Spreckels
 

Further to the search for Spreckles' career detials I came across this publication in Danish(?) which mentions our man Spreckels a few times.

It appears to be the wartime memoirs of Uffz.Siegfried "Napp" Rudschinat, who appears to be a close contemporay of Spreckels.
Anyone with the necessary translation skills throw some light on his early career?
It looks an interesting account from Rudschinat himself as well.

https://issuu.com/commentumforlag/do...krig_leseprove