Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

On Sept 25, 1944 a Soviet Boston DB-7 of the Black
Sea Fleet torpedo equipped which departed Gelenjik or Sevastopol
arrived all the way to Greece and later on was brought down by AA
near Saloniki . The crew of 3 did not intend to defect anywhere
nor was on a given mission on the Med Sea . Weather was very
good. As of today no info on this incident. Any idea what gone
wrong ? Entire crew is listed KIA

Alex K

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

Hallo!

Pure, uneducated GUESS. They flew accidentally reciprocal heading/course (180 degrees wrong).

Cheers,
Kari

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

Hi there ,

I tend to agree on the 180 reversal in the event on the pre flt. check
he and his navigator consumed too much Vodka , or simply being upset with
the system decided to follow some of his comrades who in 1941defected
to Turkey . Though it would be quite unsual that the A-20 be fully
tanked for such distance ( due to above issue) and then two
days after his death he was posthumously awarded the order
of Red Banner . One revision though , it was a crew of four .

Cheers
Alex K

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

Very interesting, Alex

Do you know the identities of the crew?

And when you state 'shot down by Greek AA' are you able to clarify?


Take care, stay safe
Brian

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

Hello Brian

Yes I know the identity of the pilot and nav , Lt Moslonov
and 2nd Lt.Klimtschuk . I did not say brought down by
Greek AA but over Saloniki , unable to clarify more details
the mission remains classified or hidden to public.

On Sept 1944 Black Sea Air Fleet were enganged
in Bulgaria so my first thought was that they headed for
Varna at high altitude from one of the Black Sea Fleet bases
such as Gelendjik for recon , then switched auto pilot followed by
oxygen supply issue at higher altitude leading to crew's
hypoxia and crew became incapacitated, that may explain
that none of the four crew attempted to bail out over Saloniki .

On August 2005 Helios Airline of Cyprus gone through such
mishap, though I may be wrong , so who knows .

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna15206047

So I am still in dark

Cheers
Alex

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

Many thanks, Alex

I interpreted 'brought down by AA near Salonika' to mean shot down by AA.

Anyway, thanks for the additional details.

Take care, stay safe
Brian

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

Sure thing , thanks and be well too !

Alex

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

Is it possible the aircraft was on a special recon mission to Greece?

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

Maybe recon but the likelihood is very low eventhough
it was a recon sqd , but if recon I believe the target was
in Bulgaria rather Greece.

Alex K

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

Hello,
Black Sea Fleet (ChF) was on that day no longer part of the active units engaged with the enemy forces.
But 244 BAD, 17 VA, with Bostons, was based in Bulgaria:
as on 6.9. HQ 244 BAD Dorobani
260 BAP Boston Maltezi
449 BAP Boston Dorobani, Urlyaska from 7.9.
860 BAP Boston Maltezi
861 BAP Boston Dorobani
17.9.1944. Bombing Skopje and Niš. Recce: Čačak, Kruševac, Kraljevo,
Niš, Veles and Saloniki. On the same day part of 244 BAD moved to Vrazhdebna near Sofia.
18.9.1944. Bombing Skopje.
19.9.1944. Bombing Saloniki (railways and harbour) and Skopje.
As on 1.10.1944.:
HQ 244 BAD Bela Slatina
260 BAP Boston Malorac
449 BAP Boston Vrazhdebna (Sofia)
860 BAP Boston Graf Ignyatevo (Plovdiv)
861 BAP Boston Bela Slatina

Zoran

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

17 VA, 244 BAD, 861 BAP lost A-20G, S/N: 43-21525 on Sept 22, 1944 in Bulgaria, Akakintse(?) area. (Dmitriev crew)

5 VA, 218 BAD, 453 BAP, 1st Sq. lost A-20G, S/N: 43-21689 on September 22, 1944 on Kolozsvár/Cluj airfield in Romania. (Malov crew)

17 VA, 244 BAD, 260 BAP lost A-20G, S/N: 43-9782 on September 26, 1944 at Pirdop(?), Bulgaria in the mountains in an accident. ~60 km Sofia-E (Plehanov crew)

I am not aware of any other Boston losses between them from either the 5th, or the 17th VA.

Gabor

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

Gabor and Zoran

Your remarks are correct and may be accounted to Opersvodkas
of 17 VA and 5 VA , not however to the Black Sea Fleet , also
the remark that BSF was no longer enganged with enemy forces
on that day which in case is correct this can only contribute to the
bizare outcome of this case .

The A-20 in question belonged and was listed as loss to the 2nd Sdq
of 30 KAP of BSF which was also known as 30th RSAP under
command of Col.Rojdensvensky and the aircraft was maritime
probably a J model .

So no real connection to 17th or 5 VA's. For your info Gabor the
260 BAP plane you mentioned as lost on mountain accident was flown
by Lt.Lopin (clarify why Plehanov ) and crashed some 45 Km of Sofia
and the one on Sept 22, 1944 was flown by Lt.Dmitriev possibly
due enemy involvement .

Alex K

PS: Saloniki would be on aprox on a 220 degree bearing from Gelendjik which
if flown on a direct course ,must have taken the a/c slightly over SSE of
Bulgaria and NNW of Turkey.

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

On September 26, 1944 the 17 VA, 244 BAD, 260 BAP had in fact three incidents, not just one:

-Leonid Andreevich Gruzinskii crew at Vratsa, Bulgaria in accident.
-Nikolai Illarionovich Lopin crew in accident during weather recce. flight.
-Boris Vladimirovich Plehanov crew at Sofia-E, Bulgaria in accident, S/N: 43-9782, engines: 43-107007, 43-104434.

Since only one serial is given, the planes of the other two crews were probably not permanent losses. Perhaps the different records messed up the crews and their planes, if there was only one permanent loss, not three. 244 BAD diary - mentions indeed the 260 BAP Lopin-Klimovskii-Chapligin-Bashtirov crew missing on a weather recce. mission. But what about the other 2 crews and their planes? 43-9782 was linked to the Plehanov crew, so I don't know.

Other known losses on September 25, 1944:

- 5 VA, 14 GvIAD, 177 GvIAP La-5FN, S/N: 39211782, shot down at Torda/Turda, Romania, piloted by Gv.Ml.Lt Ivan Andreevich Poplutin (KIA).
- 5 VA, 6 GvIAD, 73 GvIAP Yak-1B, S/N: 28179 on Lugos/Lugoj airfield in Romania, destroyed on the ground between 07:18-07:40. (No pilot!)
- 5 VA, 6 GvIAD, 85 GvIAP Yak-9D, S/N: 1515399 on Lugos/Lugoj airfield in Romania, destroyed on the ground between 07:18-07:40. (No pilot!)
- 5 VA, 6 GvIAD, 85 GvIAP Yak-1B, S/N: 02175 on Lugos/Lugoj airfield in Romania, destroyed on the ground between 07:18-07:40. (No pilot!)

But these were not Bostons...
Gabor

Re: Boston DB-7 Shot down Saloniki Sept 25,1944
 

I'm aware about the events related the 260 BAP crews
you mentioned in particular of Gruzinsky's fate who was captured
sometime on Oct.'43 , one of the few who managed to
escape from Stalag Luft II Lodj and make it back to Soviet
lines after a very long saga , pass the NKVD clearing camp just
in order to be killed a year later near Vratsa.

Nevertheless thanks for info

Alex K