Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

I have total number of claims for following units:

JG 26 - 2726 (including about 200 over the Eastern Front)
JG 52 - ~10500 (including about 10200 over the Eastern Front)
JG 51 - 9350 (Including 8435 over the Eastern Front)
JG 54 - 9450 (including straffing attack, Including 8750 over the Eastern Front
JG 5 - 3300 (including 3000 over the Eastern Front)
JG 77 4505 (including 2830 over the Eastern Front and 497 over Africa)
JG 53 - 4000 (including 1685 over the Eastern Front )
JG 3 - 5860 (including 4810 over the Eastern Front )
JG 27 3033 (including 270 over the Eastern Front (1941)
JG-7 about 430 ?
JG-2 ~2700

I'm looking for number of total claims attribute to JG 1, JG 6, JG 4, JG 11, JG 4, JG 76, JG 300, JG 301 and JG 301.

Jagdgeschwader Claims
 

Hi

I have the following figures as the number of claims recorded by the Jagdgeschwadern involved: JG 1, 1,500; JG 4, 600; JG 6, 1,100; JG 11, 1,200 and JG 300, 1,000. I do not know how accurate these are nor how many were claimed on either front or theater but at least it will give you something to work with.

Horrido!

Leo

JG-7 about 430 ?

I'd be very cautious regarding that figure. First of all, there was no confirmation procedure working in 1945, when JG 7 was active.

Secondly, due to Manfred Boehme's "JG 7", this Jagdgeschwader claimed to have shot down 23 aircraft in February 1945 (p. 141) and 131 aircraft in March 1945 (p. 187). If we add the various daily victory claims in the list on pp. 284 - 287 in that book, we get a total of no more than 69 victory claims in April - May 1945. On pp. 92 - 93, Boehme mentions six JG 7 victories in December 1944. Then two victories are listed for January 1945 (p. 273). (The performances by JG 7 was quite meagre before the introduction of the R4M rocket projectiles, which were used for the first time by JG 7 on 18 March 1945 AFAIK.)

That gives a grand total of 231 victories claimed by JG 7. Please note that a comparison between JG 7's claims for US heavy bombers and actual losses sustained by the USAAF indicates that the jet pilots made some heavy overclaims and sustained quite significant own losses.

On 21 March, JG 7 claimed to have shot down 13 B-17s while no more than 6 US 8th AF heavy bombers were lost to all causes that day. The price for this was a loss of 4 Me 262s.

On 24 March, JG 7 claimed "10 four-engined" in an attack against 15th AF, but US sources say that only one of 15th AF's heavy bombers was lost to jet interception. Meanwhile, another 4 Me 262s were lost. (The US escort fighters claimed to have shot down 8 Me 262s. . .) (See Hammel, "Air War Europa", p. 464.)

On 25 March, JG 7 claimed 5 B-24s shot down. This time the claims match with US loss statistics, but 5 Me 262s were lost - out of 25 despatched.

The darkest day for JG 7 was 10 April 1945, when 10 B-17s and 5 P-51s were claimed but 27 Me 262s were lost. With one of thge latter, the jet ace Walter Schuck flew his last mission of the war.

Due to Roger A. Freeman's "The US Strategic Bomber" (p. 157), 8th AF and 15th AF lost altogether 70 heavy bombers to enemy aircraft through March 1945 - a figure which should be compared with the 108 four-engined bombers claimed shot down by JG 7 in that month (Boehme, p. 187).


(Edited for typo)

Hi, thanks for replay.
I now about following numbers of JG 7s claims : ( Source: http://www.luftwaffe.cz/1945.html )

1944 - 23
January and February 1945 - 24

March 1945 (day - number of claims)

3 10
7 2
9 1
14 2
15 7
16 1
17 4
18 20
19 10
20 10
21 16
22 15
23 3
24 17
25 10
27 1
28 3
30 8
31 23
Total : 163

April 1945 against USAAF and RAF only:

1 2
4 13
7 5
8 4
9 5
10 18
12 1
17 9
19 5
25 7
28 1
Total :70

Grand total = about 280 Claims (+ some number of WWS a/c), BUT due to H Morgan & J Weal book "German Jet Aces of WW2" JG 7 claimed 500 a/c (!!!)

Thanks a lot, Gizmo. Very interesting. I never noticed the difference between Kacha's excellent site and Boehme's book in that regard.

One thing: Boehme states that Hans Grünberg claimed two victories on 10 April 1945. But if you read the very detailed description of Grünberg's flight on 10 April 1945 on pp. 206 - 208 in Bracke's "Gegen vielfache Übermacht: Aspekte der Luftkriegswirklichkeit 1942 - 1945" (a title which in itself is a provocation here. . . :wink: ), you will find that Grünberg didn't claim to have shot down any aircraft. Explain that, he or she who can!

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Good morning Gentlemen,

JG totals are a very interesting topic.
I may add:
JG20 - 41
JG21 - 59
JG25 - 2
JG50 - 50
JG76 - 125

Have a good weekend,

Michael

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

If you look at "pure" JG 6 claims I would set the number as slightly above 200.

John

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Hi Gizmo

These totsls are based on actual claim I hold by mikrofilms, flugbücher, abschusstafel, Leistungsbücher, KBT paper. If a unit changed it's name I left as original i.e One gruppe of JG3 became JG1, I have kept them within JG3's claims. Documented unconfirmed claims are included, but indicated so.

JG 1 1101 (132 u/c)
JG 2 2545 (103 u/c)
JG 3 6748 (212 u/c)
JG 4 383 (1 u/c but very active in 1945 so likely many, many more)
JG 5 2681 (39 u/c)
JG 6 121 (7 u/c but again very active during 1945)
JG 7 292 (3 u/c, again very active during 1945)
Kdo.Nowotny & Kdo.262 35(4 u/c)
JG 11 1092 (6 u/c)
JG 20 35
JG 21 46 (6 u/c)
JG 26 2730 (88 u/c)
JG 27 3050 (373 u/c)
JG 50 15 (5 u/c)
JG 51 9081 (252 u/c again very active during 1945)
JG 52 10870 (322 u/c again very active during 1945, true total of confirmed closer to 11000)
JG 53 3767 (112 u/c)
JG 54 9131 (144 u/c, again very active during 1945)
JG 76 111 (4/u/c)
JG 77 3884 (252 u/c, again very active during 1945)
JG 200 44 (4 u/c)
JG 300 569 (15 u/c)
Kdo.Herrmann 59 (10 u/c)
JG 301 262 (3 u/c)
JG 302 301 (28 u/c)
JG 400 15
JV 44 43 (7 u/c)
EJG 2 40
LG 2 354 (20 u/c)
EKDO 25 28 (1 u/c)

Final training units:-

JGr.Ost 34
JGr.Süd 56
JGr.West 14

KDO.Herrmann became JG 300
KDO.Nowotny and KGO.262 became JG 7.
JG 6 started as the first Jet unit.

JG 20, JG 21 and JG 76 became parts of JG 61 and JG 54, JG 76 becoming a new unit during 1944, but I have counted both stints as one.

Also have the ZG, SG, KG, AG, NaG, NJG units if your interested.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Good evening dear Johannes,

what an amazing post. Thanks for sharing.
Yes, I would be very interested in the ZG, SG, KG, AG, NaG, and NJG's

Have a good start into the new week,

Michael

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Hi Michael

Reconnaissance units(think the first AG.OD.d.L gunners made the claims):-

AG.OD.d.L = 11
AGN =1
AG 11 = 14
AG 12 = 9
AG 14 = 9
AG 22 = 16
AG 31 = 1
AG 100 = 7
AG 121 - 7
AG 122 = 14
AG 123 = 30
AG 125 = 1
AG 130 = 1
NaG 2 = 105(9 u/c)
NaG 4 = 137(1 u/c)
NaG 5 = 33
NaG 8 = 12
NaG 9 = 2
NaG 11 = 7
NaG 12 = 9
NaG 13 = 16
NaG 14 = 9
NaG 15 = 1
NaG 31 = 11
NaG 32 = 4
NaG.Ost = 1
NaG.erg = 1

Nightfighters:-

NJG 1 = 2017(62 u/c)
NJG 2 = 1074(61 u/c)
NJG 3 = 980(22 u/c)
NJG 4 = 575(13 u/c, earlier unit mikrofilms missing)
NJG 5 = 744(32 u/c)
NJG 6 = 463(29 u/c)
NJG 7 = 14
NJG 10 = 20
NJG 11 = 83
NJG 100 = 459
NJG 101 = 95
NJG 102 = 26
NJG 200 = 21
NJG.erg = 1
KDO.Kunkel = 2
KDO.Versuchen = 1
NJG.Staffel = 1
NJS 116 = 15
NSG 4 = 1
Luftbeostaffel = 15

ZG units(earlier unit mikrofilms only exist for III./ZG 26, I./ZG 76, ZKG 30):-

ZG 1 = 448(26 u/c)
ZG 2 = 88
ZG 26 = 666(36 u/c)
ZG 52 = 7(1 u/c)
ZG 76 = 504(31 u/c)
ZG 101 = 8
ZKG 30 = 7

Training units:-

JG 101 = 4
JG 103 = 1
JG 104 = 6
JG 105 = 5
JG 106 = 13(1 U/C)
JG 107 = 5
JG 108 = 1
JG 110 = 1

SG/Sch units(earlier unit mikrofilms missing):--
SG 1 = 149(1 u/c)
SG 2 = 265(3 u/c)
SG 3 = 100
SG 4 = 128(14 u/c)
SG 5 = 12
SG 10 = 162(1 u/c)
SG 77 = 79
SG 101 = 1
SG 121 = 1
SG 152 =8

Bomber units used as fighters:-

KG 2 = 10
KG 40 = 83(13 u/c)
KG 51 = 57

Other(omitting pure bomber units):-

KDO.Larz = 2
LG 1 = 121
Sonderkdo.Elbe = 12
JG.Italien = 102(64 u/c)
JG 25 = 2
JG 152 = 10
Industrial Erla/Ago/Neustadt/Soren/Fockewulf = 18(4 u/c)
SaGr 126 = 7
SaGr 128 = 22
SKG 10 = 32
SKG 210 = 10
JGr.ZBK = 1
Jasta 186 18(1 u/c)
FLUG 1 = 2
BFGr 196 = 15
EJG 1 = 33(4 u/c)
Führer.kurier = 10(1 u/c)

Let me know if you think I have missed any.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Johannes

Very interesting lists
Out of curiosity I wonder why you put JG 25 under others while JG 50 comes under Tagjacht?
I always thought they were formed for the same job.
Also EJG 2 ends up under Tagjacht while EJG 1 is located under others.

Any reason for that?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Very valuable contribution as usual.I am little surprised by JG 302 having more victories than JG 301 considering its shorter lifespan.
Also the 15 victories for the Luftbeostaffeln make me wish for an history of these shadowing units.
Can you tell us more about the two victories from the ferry flight unit FLUG 1?
And lastly, what is JGr.ZBK?

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Good evening Gentlemen,

I agree. These a very appealing lists and I will have a good time working them through and cross-checking them with equipment data.

Thanks and praise to Johannes for sharing!

Michael

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Hi Guys

Firstly my old friend Stig.

I didn't know the purpose of JG 25(by memory one of the claimants was Herbert Ihlefeld, but I do know the JG 50 flew special high altitude Bf109's to get at Mosquitos.

Others, just clumped together obscure units to save time.

Secondly Alfred

Have not a clue what FLUG 1 was. Take you word for it, but claims were:-

3(sud)./FLUG 1 2nd November 1944 P-51 by ogefr Böhm north of Mansfeld 1245 hrs 2000 metres altiude
4(sud)./FLUG 1 23rd March 1944 B-17 by Fw Goebel 1130 hrs 5200 metres.

Luftbeostaffel Most but not all claims at night. Twelve claimants, two for Hptm Ernst Wallner, three for Lt Ludwig Wurtz, also another name Lt Achim Woeste looks familiar. all claims between 14th October 1943(Schweinfurt raid) and 4th October 1944. Strange numberings sometimes 3./Luftbeo, sometimes LBST 2 or LBST 7 once Luftbeo.Kaatsch.

With JGr.ZBK, again not a clue, but the claimant was Gerhard Michalski:-

3./JGr.ZBK 29th April 1944 B-17 East of Braunschweig 1103 hrs 7000 metres.

If third staffel, then I guess there must have been at least two others, so quite a size.

Thirdly Michael, your very welcome, would like to see somebody take on publishing something on these shadowy units
"Macht ist missen."

Kind Regards

Johannes

P.S

Industrial guess you know were factory sponsored small units. The four unconfirmed were for Hptm Ernst-Albrecht Leube of Industrial.Erla, got these from his Leistungsbuch, guess this suggests he was flying alone, at least two were O.Z, but three claimants with this unit.

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Thank you, I'll see what I can found from the opposite side for these two claims.

Info for Flugzeugüberführungsgeschwader 1: http://www.ww2.dk/air/misc/flug1.htm

And it should be a misprint and 3./JGr.ZBK should have been Stab/JG zbV (Jagdgeschwader zur besonderen Verwendung), a Stab formed to control a number of Gruppen: https://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jgzbv.html

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Thank you Johannes,

very interesting list, above all for the reconnaissance units.
Two question for my part:
are 1945 claims included? the note for JG 51,52,54 "very active in 1945" confuses me.
For NJG 1 have over 2300 night and day claims, old Aders book on Nachtjagd, a difference of 200 plus.

regards
Alessandro

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Thanks for the explanation Johannes
I always thought both JG 25 and JG 50 were formed for the same purpose.
Mosquito hunting.
I have re-arranged some units a bit....:)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Hi Alessandro

!945 claims included, however it's only what I know from flugbücher and Leistungsbücher. Only JG 26/JG 27 known completely. So many, many missing.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Good morning Johannes and Co,

multiplying unit scores with equipment percentages and including the other Axis powers I found that the Bf109 claimed more and the Fw190 less than I thought...

I assume the 354 LG2 kills were mainly scored by I./LG2 ?

Cheers,
Michael

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Hello Johannes,

Most interesting data, thank you very much for sharing this with us. Regarding the Luftbeob.Staffeln your data sounds convincing and in line with data I have assembled for Luftbeob.St.1 and 3, both established in Venlo late 1943.

Lt. Ludwig Wirtz (not Wurtz :)) flew from 'my' airfield Venlo late 1943 and early 1944 before his fatal accident 8th January 1944.

Keep up the good work! Best regards, Marcel

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Good morning Gentlemen,

did the JG z.b.V. claim anything ?

Best greetings from Switzerland,

Michael

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Hi Marcel

Thank you for your reply interest and correction regarding Wirtz/Wurtz, I will amend my file.

This is totally what I have on Luftbeo:-

14th October 1943 3./Luft.Beo B-17 Lt Ludwig Wurtz 20km SE Schweinfurt 1700 hrs 6500 metres.
1st December 1943 LBST 7 Halifax( can't read name or rank)2115 hrs
20th December 1943 3./Luft.Beo Lancaster Lt Ludwig Wurtz raum Frankfurt-am-Main 2015 hrs 5200 metres
20th December 1943 3./Luft.Beo Lancaster Lt Ludwig Wurtz raum Kuhl 2030 hrs 5400 metres.
24th February 1944 LBST 7 Halifax Ofw Paul Karsten 20km NNE Stuttgart 2256 hrs 6000 metres.
6th March 18944 2./Luft.Beo Oblt "König" 1417 hrs 400 metres.
15th March 1944 LBST 7 Lancaster Ofw "Kellermann" over the sea 2258 hrs.
28th April 1944 LBST 7 Lancaster Hptm Ernst Wallner 0119 hrs..
29th April 1944 Luft.Beo B-17(Can't read name or rank) 1239 hrs.
14th June 1944 LBST 7 Wellington Hptm Ernst Wallner München/Innsbruck 0020 hrs.
17th June 1944 LBST 2 "Viermot" Lt Paul Fehre 0212 hrs.
17th June 1944 LBST 2 "Viermot" Hugo Fuetscher Rotterdam 0208 hrs 4000 metres.
21st June 1944 LBST 7 B-24 Lt Achim Woeste raum Arno 1242 hrs 3100 metres.
21st June 1944 1./Luft.Beo Uffz Schulz 1145 hrs 2000 metres v.n.e-a.s.m.
4th October 1944 Luft.Beo.Kaatsch Auster Lt Bell 3km SW Charwas 0950 hrs.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

What exactly did the Luftbeobachtungsstaffeln do (purpose)?
They all seem to spring out of the NJG, but why were they formed in the first place?
They were all disbanded after a year or less, so obviously not very successful and all seems to have
gone back into the NJG system.

Anyone with more info?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

They were supposed to shadow a bomber stream and release flares to mark its track so the night fighters could close in.

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Thanks (again) Nick

That was a bit surprising. Why invent a new unit nomenclature when they simply could have added
a Staffel to the relevant NJG?

How did these units operate? Separately or were they in fact subordinated a kind of parent NJG?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Stig,

This may help -- https://www.luftwaffedata.co.uk/inde...achterstaffeln

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Thanks Andy (and Larry!)

Yes it helped a lot even if the pertinent questions were not answered.
Perhaps we will never know them really. I still think they should have been formed straight away
within the NJG system where they in the end ended up...

Cheers
Stig

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Good evening Johannes and Co,

EJG1 scored more kills than I thought.
Did anybody achieve 5+ kills in that unit ?

Best greeting from Switzerland,

Michael

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Hi Michael

I will check my Geschwader file. But by memory and not included in then Eberhard von Boremski was reputed to have made sixteen claims with this unit, but being during 1945 they would never have been confirmed, and I have so far found no evidence of them.

During 1945 all manor of pilots were returned to combat with various units, often they were previous wounded pilots no longer fit for action, sometimes training instructors.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Hi Michael

Only have four names to claims. Two for Gerhard Hoffmann on 7th March 1945 his 128th-129th claims, and two for Pfeiifer his 1st-2nd.

Thing is the KBT papers give details but not names unless the pilot has thirty or more claims.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Good evening Johannes,

thanks for checking.
After OSPREY discontinued the AVIATION ELITE UNITS series it released some unit histories in the AIRCRAFT OF THE ACES format. The top scoring German Geschwader with no volume so far is JG77. Maybe one day somebody will write it. It would also be intrigueing to create one volume about minor units with too low results to warrant an own volume.

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Jochen Prien already has, in four volumes.

Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader
 

Good evening Johannes,

did you ever consider writing a book about the Luftwaffe oddities, like minor unit scorers, rare bird scorers and all that stuff which as a single item could not fill a whole book ?

I wish you a good start into the new week,

Michael