Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

I am trying to establish the date when Kü.FI.Gr.606 was officially renamed as K.Gr.606. According to DeZeng and Stankey's Bomber Units of the Luftwaffe 1933-1945, Volume 2, although this unit was originally formed as a Küstenfliegergruppe, it designation was changed to a Kampfgruppe and was operating as K.Gr.606 by the time hostilities began. However, a number of loss lists for the Battle of Britain period refer to downed Do 17s of Kü.FI.Gr.606. Which is correct?

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Mid-September it was still Kü.Fl.Gr but I have asked before when this change over took place. I will check the NVMs and report back

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Thanks Chris, I have a similar query for Kü.FI.Gr.806 vs K.Gr.806

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

DeZeng and Stankey's Bomber Units of the Luftwaffe 1933-1945, Volume 2 are totally wrong on this. As you can see from attached picture, in september 1940 it was still KüFlGr 606.
Junker

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Hi

The KüFlGr.606 was never renamed to KGr.606.
In Sept. 1942 KüFlGr.606 was renamed in I./KG 77.

best wishes
JoMe

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

If you have a look in my book on the Condor, you will see org charts which states that from 10 Jun 41 onward, it became KGr 606. Luftflotte 3 on 19 May 1941 calls it Kü.Fl.Gr 606 but the unit NVM for the same dates says KGr 606 as do NVMs for April 1941! As for 806, NVM for Aug 40 says KGr 806

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

It says K.Gr.606 and K.Gr.806 in the Einsatsbereitschaftsmeldung during may/june 1941. It says K.Fl.Gr.606 in March 1941

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Thanks to all. The key point from my point of view is that the units remained as Kü.Fl.Gr.606 and Kü.Fl.Gr.806 throughout the Battle of Britain period.

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Not according to the NVM for 806 which says it was a KGr in Aug 40 likewise Luftflotte 3 records......

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Thanks Chris, I will take that into account for 806. Am I safe to assume that Kü.Fl.Gr.606 served under that name throughout the BoB?

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Peter-No. Looking at the Luftflotte records for October 1940, it refers to them as KGr 606. I feel the differentiation came when it stopped being a purely maritime unit but even in August 1940 it was attacking land targets. I feel the answer is not as easy or cut and dried as one would hope

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

I did see something on the Seekriegsleitung KTB noting that the last remaining Kfl.Gr. had become a KGr. and so the Navy no longer had such support. I can’t now remember which unit or the month but it’s a source that might be worth exploring.

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Thanks again for the replies - Peter.

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Jörn: see Chris Goss Post No. 11 on this thread. I know everyone else is always wrong while you are always right, but the jury is still out on this one.

L.

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Nick , i think that the last units were the 1.Kü.Fl.Gr.406 nd 1.Kü.Fl.Gr.906, noted like that on documents late on the war, KTM OKM till may/june 1943, after that date they were named, KGr. , only Ultra named them with the old acronym in 1944...

Rémi

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Possibly switch become obvious for everybody, when these units clearly, were used to use Land-planes, question is how many time it takes to most of the people to no more consider a marine unit using land-planes as a marine unit ..:D
Rémi

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

In the Einsatsbereitschaftsmeldung for 26 October 1940 the following is stated for Kampf-Verbände: Soll Vermindert durch III./KG 30 mit 30 Ju 88 und erhöht durch Aufnahme der K.Fl.Gr.606 mit 36 Do 17 Z.



Under the heading "Flieger-Verbände Ob.d.M. Küstenflieger F" where the unit had been reported up until then, the following is stated: Soll vermindert durch K.Fl.Gr.606, die unter Kampfverbänden aufgeführt ist.

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

I'm not allways right. But I posted the frontpage of the units KTB, covering 1-15 september 1940. It clearly states KüFlGr. Chris is talking about october 1940. I will look forward to be proven wrong, in the case of 606.
Junker

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Jörn: I remember spending hours and hours 30 years ago trawling my way through conflicting documents and books trying to find the definitive date for the 606 change in designation, but finally I had to pick one from an offering of poor choices. I think others have been forced to do the same. So, I will do what you are doing: wait until proven wrong:

KGr 606
Kampfgruppe 606
(Unit Code 7T+)

Formation. (Nov 39)
Formed 1 November 1939 at Kamp/15 km WSW of Kolberg on the Baltic in Pomerania with a Gruppenstab and 1. – 3. Staffel, all new. Originally intended as a Küstenfliegergruppe, the comprehensive reorganization order for the entire Küstenflieger arm that was issued on 25 October 1939 directed it to begin conversion to the Do 17 effective 1 November as an intended Kampfgruppe, thus changing its mission and classification. Moved to Kiel-Holtenau very shortly after assembling at Kamp to be equipped and begin training, which lasted until the beginning of April 1940.

[Sources Used: Tessin-Tes; J-P.Défieux-Répertoire des Unités Aériennes de la Luftwaffe 1935-1945: Reconnaissance Aéronavale; C.Shores-Fledgling Eagles: The Complete Account of Air Operations During the ‘Phony War’ and Norwegian Campaign, 1940:99, 272, 346; M.Holm-website ww2.dk; S.Neitzel-Einsatz der deutschen Luftwaffe über den Atlantik und der Nordsee 1939-1945:67, 75, 109, 135; F.Kurowski-Seekrieg aus der Luft:77, 146-47, 259, 293-94; U.Balke-KG 2/Bd. I:407, 413; W.Ramsey-The Blitz Then and Now/v.2:435; Carlsen/Meyer-Die Flugzeugführer-Ausbildung…./v.2:403.]

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Another original document.
Junker

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Welcome to LW research, after 60 years of working with documentation, if you find a source there is the illusion of knowing a bit, if you find 2 or more sources, most times a conumdrum is the result . In researching Ju 88 production, I worked with 5 primary sources, none of which agreed exactly with the others. In many cases there really are not clear definitive answers , particularly when working at a detail level.
best regards,


ArtieBob

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

Well said Art-precisely!

Re: Kü.FI.Gr.606 vs K.Gr.606
 

The first time K.Fl.Gr. 606 is mentioned as K.Gr. 606 is in the Einsatzbereitschaft der fliegende Verbände (Gen.Qu.6. Abt./I.B.) dated 29. March 1941.