Erhardt Gmelin
 

Have just established this guy made five claims between August 1941 and February 1942 in Russia(I-16's and Pe-2's). But I know almost nothing about him.

Facts:

Trained with ZS1

ZG units ZG26, ZG1, ZG2.(staffeln unknown to me)

I./JG104 for conversion to Bf109.

Ends war(which he survived) with II./JG52, sometimes flew with Peter Düttmann. Baled-out in combat with U.S Mustangs 20/03/1945, but probably unhurt.

Am looking for date of Birth/death, and dates related to his units.

Assume his five claims were with ZG1, but what staffel

Grateful for the help of anybody more enlightened than myself.

Keep well

Johannes

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Johannes,

Doug and I have Erhardt Gmelin and Knut Gmelin all mashed together in our Luftwaffe Officer Career Summaries, apparently because we never found Erhardt's first name and thus thought the two of them were the same individual. Hopefully, others will provide some additional details about them so we can straighten this out.

L.

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Hi, Erhardt Gmelin *31.7.1921 in Stettin

regards,

René

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Thanks, René, for Erhardt's date of birth. Every little bit will be a help with this.

L.

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

This is what I have for Erhard Gmelin as a Bordfunker:
03.41 ZS 1
05.41 Erg.St./ZG 26
06.41 4./ZG 26
05.42 1./ZG 2
09.42 II./ZG 2
11.42 9./ZG 1
07.43 3./Erg.Schl.Gr.

and as a pilot:
12.43 FFS A 9
08.44 I./JG 104
01.45 5./JG 52

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

This what I have for Knut Gmelin from his flight log:
11.42 - 12.42 FFS C6
02.43 BFS 3
03.43 - 04.43 10./KG 40
04.43 11./KG 40
04.43 - 09.43 13./KG 40
09.43 - 10.43 10./KG 40
11.43 - 06.44 1./ZG 1
shot down 09.06.1944 near Epron by light English flak with Ju 88R-2, 2N+AH, at 06.15 a.m., succumbed to his injuries at 06.55 a.m., buried at 09.06.1944 in the park of Louvigny, south of Caen

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Thank you, Herrn Stemmer und Rasmussen! Your fresh information may help us resolve this now. Much appreciated.

Larry deZeng

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Thanks Guys

One other question. All his claims were with a single pilot, and his name is handwritten, so open to question. Gmelin seems to write so quickly that the first letter of his name is distorted, it looks like Dorchardt, on occasion it looks like Borchardt(which it probably is)......written more slowly.
All these claims would be with 4./ZG26 then, and II./ZG26's earlier typed-out by Staffel mikrofilms are missing, and only a very few of ZG26's claims over Russia have ever been found, so it is significant.

One last question 9./ZG1 November 1941 or November 1942?

Thanks again

Johannes

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Hi Guys

I don't know for sure, but think Gmelin's pilot was Fw Walter Borchardt who got the EP 02.04.1942 and the DKiG 21.08.1942 with I./ZG2. Seems "Borchardt" was with Gmelin until August 1943, and that they went from Russia to Tunisia together.

If this is the case, can somebody more enlightened than myself please educate me with a few dates for Walter Borchardt.

Grateful as always for your help

Keep well

Johannes

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

To clarify the situation, I have integrated the info from TOCH with the pre-existing data on LwOCS to update our files:

GMELIN, Erhardt. (DOB: 31.07.21 in Stettin). 03.41 ZS 1 as trainee bordfunker. 05.41 Erg.St./ZG 26. 06.41 4./ZG 26. 11.41 9./ZG 1. 05.42 1./ZG 2. 09.42 II./ZG 2. 07.43 with 3./Erg.Schl.Gr. 12.43 FFS A 9 as pilot trainee. 08.44 attended I./JG 104 for conversion to Bf 109. 01.45 with 5./JG 52. 20.03.45 II./JG 52 unhurt? - bailed out after combat with P-51s 05.45 Fw., 6./JG52. Survived the war. [never an officer - credited with no claims].
GMELIN, Knud. (DOB: 07.12.21 in Nedlitz /Krs. Osthavelland). 11.42 with FFS C 6 (to 12.42). 02.43 with Blindflugschule 3. 03.43 trf to 10./KG 40 (to 04.43). 04.43 trf to 11./KG 40. 04.43 trf to 13./KG 40 (to 09.43). 18.07.43 Lt., 13./KG 40. 01.08.43 Lt., 13./KG 40 unhurt - Ju 88 C-6 (F8+IX) ditched in Pl.Qu. 14 West/9751 after being shot down by a Catalina of VP 63 - recovered by 1. Seenotstaffel. 18.09.43 Lt., 13./KG 40. 09.43 trf to 10./KG 40 (to 10.43). 11.43 trf to 1./ZG 1 (to 06.44) due to unit renaming. 29.11.43 Lt., 1./ZG 1. 13.12.43 Lt., 1./ZG 1. 11.04.44 Lt., 1./ZG 1. 04.44 Lt., appt Stafü of 1./ZG 1 (to 09.06.44). 09.6.44 Oblt., 13.(Erg)/KG 40 a.k.a. 1./ZG 1 Lt., Stafü 1./ZG 1 KIA by AA fire - Ju 88 C-6 (F8+RX) [Version #2: or Ju 88 R-2 (2N+AH)] hit by light AA vic Caen crash-landed vic Epron/France but bled to death - wounded in the hip). 09.06.44 Buried initially in the park of Louvigny, south of Caen. Buried permanently at la Cambe near Bayeux. Final rank: Oblt. Credited with at least 8 victories in 70 missions.
So apparently the reason we had nothing about Erhard was that he had never been an officer.
I had searched the Barbas' II./JG 52 book and found nothing about any claims. His shoot down on 20.03.45 confirms that he had only been an Fw.
Unless someone has any new input, this seems to be the end of the story.

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Thanks for posting these, Doug!

L.

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

By rights Borchardt should have ended up with 11./JG4 as I believe 9./ZG1 became 11./JG4. He seems to have managed not losing a single aircraft throughout the war.........thus keeping below my radar, also makes no further claims. Perhaps he actually ends up as a training instructor?

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Johannes

Ofw Walter Borchardt was killed in a flying accident 11 Aug 1943 with 3./Erg.Zest.Sta

Probably a test flight as it seems his rear seater was Prufmeister Rudolf Teuteberg (also killed same date/location)

This Borchardt's EKM was 60037/60 - since 60037 being originally used by 4./ZG 26 before becoming 1./ZG 2 - so I would suggest highly likely that this is the Borchardt you are after.

See attached card

Regards

Craig...

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Hi Craig

Many thanks for that, you are of course correct.

In Gmelin's flugbuch the dates of his last flight with Borchardt is difficult to read, but the landing date is 10th Auguat 1943, therefore as the flight time was fifteen minute, that was their last date together.
Then for the second half of this page there are no more flights listed, but some total figures, then at the bottom of the page in a space usually not filled out Gmelin writes about the demise of Borchardt at the end of August 1943, then the last word is difficult to read but "....flug"

Seems there were no longer together, and he received news of his pilots death somewhat delayed. Strange thing is Borchardt dies the day after their last flight, perhaps the first flight with 3./erg.Zest.Sta
Gmelin does not fly again until 29th December 1943, when he appears to have begun pilot training, and his first solo flight two days later.

Thanks again

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

There was no 9./ZG 1 in 1941.


III./ZG 1 (Stab, 7., 8. & 9. Staffeln) was only reconstituted on 4th January 1942.

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Hi Guys

I found Borchardt's crash in the losses mikrofilms. He was flying a Bf110, it states crashed East of Ulez. Strange that he flies from Italy to Poland on the 11th August 1943, I wonder why? As he didn't take Gmelin, and Gmelin only mentions his crash was in late August, I do believe they had parted company.

Loss suggests he was alone in his aircraft as it was 100% destroyed!

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Teuteberg, see previous posts, was in same a/c.

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Hi John

Strange that the mikrofilm losses only mention Borchardt, an oversight no doubt , also no real explanation as to his crash, which is unusual also.

Regards

Johannes

Re: Erhardt Gmelin
 

Borchardt --- Gmelin ---Bf 110 ---6 ---Überführung ---Ulez ---10.8 ---10.20 Uhr --- Deblin --- 10.8 --- 10.35 Uhr

Erprobungsflug