Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

Hello all, can anyone help on details of the German aircraft that shot down a 13 Sqn Lysander. Details are:

Serial: L4812
Lost: 21/05/1940
Flight Lieutenant (Pilot) Richard H.N. Graham, RAF 25066, 13 Sqdn., age 34, 21/05/1940, St. Martin-au-Laert Churchyard, F
Pilot Officer (Air Gnr.) Reginald E.C. Butterworth , RAFVR 77531, 13 Sqdn., age 33, 21/05/1940, St. Martin-au-Laert Churchyard, F
Took off from Clairmarais. Shot down over St. Omer and crashed in St. Martin-au-Laërt.

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

Flak?
The other two Lysanders (4 Squadron) shot down that day do have possible matches either by JG 2 or JG 77....but not this 13 Squadron machine.

See "The Battle of France then and Now, pg. 339, by Dr. Peter D. Cornwell" (one of the most fantastic books I do have)

A.

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

Lt Helmut Lohoff of 3./JG 77 claimed a Lysander south of Lille 0910 hrs; Lt Wolfgang Heinel of 4./JG 2 claimed another at 1510 hrs east of Boulogne. However, Uffz Georg Lehmann of 2./JG 1 claimed a Lysander time not recorded at St Pol

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

Thanks guys, that is great information!

Hope you are well Chris!

Cheers

Danny

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

Danny: Two vaccinations, working at the local vaccination centre but itching to go to our house in France.................sometime this decade

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

Good work Chris!

I am going to see if I can work out the time of the engagement, but looking at the map I am certain it will be the Uffz Georg Lehmann engagement. Forward one but any idea of the German aircraft details and if a pic exists of Lehmann?

Cheers

Danny

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

I can find 2 names, this might be the guy. Thoughts????

14501 Lehmann, Georg Uffz 7/JG-53 (France) Bf 109G-6/AS Werk # 166343 "White 14 + -" (lost 8/22/44) Fighter Operational Clasp KIA 22 August, 1944 during aerial combat with a P-38 near La Fere.

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

Fw Georg Lehmann killed with 8./JG 27, formerly 2./JG 1, 30 Aug 40; from my book (no photos):

His first victory was with 2./JG 1on 21 May 1940. At the end of the Battle of France, his score stood at three and I./JG 1 became III./JG 27. His next victory was with 8./JG 27 on 19 July 1940 and he would get a fifth on 26 August 1940 but four days later, his Bf 109 E-4 Wk Nr 1623 was shot down off Dungeness. Lehmann was seen to bale out but on 1 September 1940 was reported killed; his body now lies in the German Military Cemetery at Bourdon
4. 19 Jul 40 Hurricane 1830 hrs Off Isle of Wight
5. 26 Aug 40 Hurricane 1730 hrs S.Winchester

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

Chris

"Well done, that man!"

Take care, stay safe

Brian

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

It looks like a afternoon sortie so my hunch from your research and info Chris, I assess it to be Lehmann that was the pilot who shot this Lysander down.

Thanks all!

Danny

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

Without a time and confirmation it was fighters responsible, all that one could say is "believed to be" or "possibly". Furthermore St Pol to where they are buried is over 50 kms

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

FWIW there's no Lysander recorded in the Western Front sitrep for 21 May (https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/...inspect/zoom/5) unless it was the "English aircraft of unknown type" brought down by the Flak.

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

It would make sense from the report it seems, and back to Adriano's kind post with flak being the cause of its loss.

Cheers

Danny

Re: 13 Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

All,

You will be shaking your heads, as have reopened this thread. I have just received the casualty reports for this crash from the PRO. There is a lot of information - statements from local residents at the time in May 1940, saying 4x Dorniers is how it has been exactly explained, pounced on the lone Lysander ....So not flak.

Bit stumped now. Grateful for any ideas. I guess not fighters, which might lead to a clue.

Cheers

Danny

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

I find the notion of Do 17s pouncing hard to believe!

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

Ha ha! I agree Chris, a strong statement.

Re: Lysander loss - German aircraft info needed.
 

A 4 Squadron Lysander was also shot down in the same engagement, both had just taken off from Clairmarais airfield. Witnesses mentioned the Lysanders being attacked by 3 or 4 'Dorniers'. Whenever I see Dorniers in such a context I think of Messerschmitt Bf 110s. That might be a more profitable avenue to search.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.