1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Ltn Igor Birkenbach, Ltn Karl-Heinz Bothfeld and an unknown pilot, all from 1/JG27, were shot down on 8 August 1940. Birkenbach and Bothfeld were killed. According to Simon Parry's BOB Combat Archive they were shot down by 145 Squadron during the first attack on convoy Peewit at approximately 9.15. However, John Weals' history of JG27 describes the three pilots being shot down in the early afternoon raid on Peewit (12.00-12.50). Can anyone shed any light on this? I have the Saunders book on Convoy Peewit but it doesn't help with these timings.

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

None is correct. 1 was lost in the morning (approx. 10.00 hrs) and 2 in the early afternoon (13.30 hrs). Sources: logbooks and after-action report of VIII Fliegerkorps that was submitted on 9.8.40 at 19.30 hrs.
And Lt. Igor Zirkenbach.

Regards

Robert

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Thank Robert,

But the times I listed are BST — the times recorded by the Luftwaffe were ECT, one hour later — so 10.00 would match 09.00, the morning action, and 13.10 matches 12.10 the midday engagement. Which pilots were lost at these times?

Peter

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Hi,

I copied the times from Luftwaffe reports so yes they are ECT.
Sorry but the names I must keep for the forthcoming publication.

Regards

Robert

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

ECT and BST are the same, aren’t they (GMT+1)? Or did you mean that the Germans were using ECT+1?

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

What year would that be?

Just asking as a fellow member of the EoE...

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Nick,
Didn't we use 'double summer time' in 1940?

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Very possibly John, but I’m out of reach of my reference just at the moment.

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Nick and John,

Herewith a quote re. BST/DST in 1940 from https://www.timeanddate.com/time/uk/...ackground.html

"There have been periods in UK history where DST was 2 hours ahead of standard time. This is known as “British Double Summer Time” (BDST), “Double Summer Time,” or “Double British Summer Time.” During World War II the UK went on an extended DST period from February 25, 1940 to October 7, 1945, effectively adding 1 hour to the time zone.."

Re. my original post, as Robert can't help, can anyone else help identify the times of the demise of Ltn Igor Birkenbach and Ltn Karl-Heinz Bothfeld of I/JG27 on 8 August?

Peter

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Zirkenbach!!!

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Yeah, we know it's Zirkenbach.
How about you answer my question in post #6.
After all, it is a full two years since it was last posed...

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Now that I've had a chance to look it up, Britain on 8 August 1940 was on BST (GMT+1) and Germany was on Central European Summer Time (GMT+2).

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

So what Peter Cook posted in post #3 is correct then, Nick?

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Not quite: the Germans weren't on normal Central European Time but on the Summer version, so Peter was right about there being a one-hour difference but not about CET per se.

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Another way to try and work out times were claims with I Gruppe claiming at 1005, 1010, 1345 and 1355 hrs. II Gruppe at 1725 hrs and III Gruppe at 1005, 1325 (2), 1328, 1330, 1720 (2) and 1730 hrs

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Thanks Chris,
I have these claim times, but the losses are somewhat ambiguous, as I said Parry has Zirkenbach and Bothfeld of I Gruppe killed at approximately 10.15 (09.15 BST), Weal has during the later raid 13.00-13.50 (12.00-12.50 BST). There were further JG 27 losses in the third attack on Peewit 17.00-1745 (16.00-16.45 BST), but these were II and III Gruppe.

Peter

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

From a translated document, it states:


1005 hrs-first attack; 2 aircrfat shot down

1245 hrs 2nd attack; 2 aircrfat missing

1700 hrs 3rd attack; 10 aircrfat shot down

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Thanks Chris,

But still no closer to who and when, perhaps this will be resolved for Zirkenbach and Bothfeld when Robert publishes his findings.

Peter

Re: 1/JG27 losses on 8 August 1940
 

Don't hold yer breath, mate...