Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

A few years ago we visited a Ju-188 crash site in the Hessenau, an area between Geinsheim and Oppenheim. The crash site was near the Rhine river and we were told that the crash happened in the later part of March 1945 when German aircraft tried to attack the 3rd Army´s pontoon bridge by Oppenheim.
Does anyone have a loss they can associate? Thanks, Danny

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

I have no known Ju 188 loss on that area in March, but two Ju 88:
1945-03-23, 5./NJG 2, Ju 88 G-6, 622136, 4R+IN, Bei Oppenheim Brückenkopf
Flugzeugführer Uffz Riebe, Otto, vermißt
Uffz Thoma, Alfred. vermißt
Obgfr Bordne, Karl,vermißt
Feindbeschuß. Bruch 100 %..
1945-03-26, 10./NJG 6, Ju 88 G, Raum Oppenheim
Flugzeugführer Ofw Scherer, Hermann, +
Bordfunker Ofw Portugall, Anton, vermißt
Bordmechaniker Ofw Kohlhöfer, Felix, vermißt
Bordschütze Obgfr Kottwitz, Wolfgang, vermißt
Unbekannt. Bruch 100 %.

Matti

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Thanks Matti, it is quite possible that the parts I have belonged to one of these two aircraft. Danny

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Matti, I noticed we both commented on a similar topic here:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=23415

Interestingly, it lists the place of death for Hermann Scherer as Hassloch, which is quite a bit south of Oppenheim.
I really think it was the first one you listed as an eye-witness stated she was shot down by US AAA.

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

firstly, here is some overall information from the OKL FüSt Ic concerning Nachtjagdverbände Nachtschlacht missions against the American bridgeheads in late March 1945. The missions began on the night of 24-25 March (so I would query the loss date of 622136 mentioned above since the OKL FüSt Ic information is explicit about what missions were flown on what dates) and concluded on the night of 26-27 March 1945. At that time, 7. Jagddivision commanded NJG6 and also II./NJG2 and I./NJG11; the later two because of the disbandment of Jafü Mittelrhein on 26 March:

24-25 March 1945
7. Jagddivision
26 sorties near Oppenheim
2 aircraft destroyed, 0 missing, 1 damaged
0 men killed , 8 missing, 8 wounded

25-26 March 1945
7. Jagddivision
24 sorties in the Oppenheim area between 22:35 - 04:44 hrs
1 aircraft destroyed, 3 missing, 5 damaged
0 men killed , 10 missing, 0 wounded

26-27 March 1945
7. Jagddivision
16 sorties in the Oppenheim-Darmstadt area
0 aircraft destroyed, 1 missing, 0 damaged
0 men killed , 2 missing, 0 wounded

The Nachtjagdverbände flew no further Nachtschlacht missions in the West until April.

Thus, these preliminary figures give three aircraft destroyed and four missing over the period.

I have no information about the losses on 24-25 March 1945. NJG6 didn't commence Nachtschlacht missions until the following night, so I assume these losses were from II./NJG2.

On 25-26 March, I only have data on IV./NJG6 Ju88 Scherer crashed near Hassloch, IV./NJG6 Bf110 31165 Uffz. Herbert Tschorschke crashed near Bodenheim-Roxheim, and IV./NJG6 Bf110 Fw. Josef Brunner, unknown crash location but Brunner survived and returned to his unit.

On 26-27 March, I have data for IV./NJG6 Bf110 Ofw. Bernhard Weiterer missing.

Also, of possible interest to you:

Sections 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 & 10 of Battery C of the 457th AAA AW Bn received credit for a Ju88 destroyed (Cat. I) on 24 March 1945. This unit was located in the Geinsheim/Oppenheim area.

Section 10 of Battery C of the 457th AAA AW Bn received 1/2 credit for a Ju188 destroyed (Cat. I) on 25 March 1945. This section was possibly located at Oberhausen.

The 115th AAA Gun Bn received credit for an aircraft destroyed (Cat. I) on 25 March 1945. The unit was located in the Dexheim area. The 115th AAA Gun Bn initially claimed three aircraft destroyed (Cat. I) and three probably destroyed (Cat. II) on the night of 25-26 March 1945, all before midnight.

Obviously, I only have scraps on US AAA info, especially on claims, but from a map of AAA Battery HQ dispositions on 24 March 1945, the closest batteries to Hessenaue were Battery C/129th AAA Gun Bn, Battery C/457th AAA AW Bn (M), and Battery C/449th AAA AW Bn (M).

Here is some very general information about the AAA defence of the Oppenheim bridgehead, taken from US Army Anti-Aircraft Artillery Notes No. 26, dated 18 April 1945 (all AAA claims noted are the extremely optimistic preliminary claims, which would have been whittled down after assessment):

“On 22 March the 5th Infantry Division reached the Rhine River in the vicinity of Oppenheim, and elements of the Division crossed in assault boats that night. All bridges crossing the Rhine on the Third Army sector had been blown, and it was decided to construct a pontoon bridge in the 5th Division sector at Oppenheim. Work was commenced immediately, and a concentrated AAA defense was set up around the area; most off the AAA units which had been employed at Bad Krueznach were moved to the Oppenheim area. The first AAA unit of Third Army across the Rhine was Battery C of the 457th AAA AW Bn (M), which ferried across in assault boats at about 1500 hours on the afternoon of 23 March. Although, the first bridge was not completed until the morning of 24 March, heavy enemy air activity began during the daylight hours of the 23rd and continued sporadically throughout the night. The daylight attacks were made by FW 190s, Me 109s, Me 262s, and one He 111. The planes made shallow strafing dives on the troops crossing the river, and on artillery and AAA positions. Heavy enemy shelling of the bridgehead area was experienced during the afternoon of the 23rd. A total of 58 enemy planes operated over the area during this period of which 19 were destroyed and 8 probably destroyed by AAA units. 10 of the Cat Is were registered by the 452nd AAA AW Bn (M).
“The Oppenheim pontoon bridge was completed on the morning of 24 March, and troops and materiel of XII Corps began streaming across the river. Maximum buildup of AAA defenses had been achieved by this time, and consisted of two AAA Gun Bns and eight AAA AW Bns (see Figure 1 for disposition), Enemy planes made a concentrated attack at dawn, followed by a few sporadic attacks during the day and at dusk, and then heavy concentrated attacks during the hours of darkness. The daylight attacks followed the usual pattern of dive bombing and strafing, employing the common type planes, including jets. By night most of the e/a operated at altitudes under 6,000 feet, with a few operating from 7 - 12,000 feet; approaches were from all directions. Upon being brought under AAA fire the evasive tactics were violent — fast diving turns, climbing and weaving before and after bombing and strafing runs. The technique employed by the two gun battalions is worthy of note: M43A3 time fuzed 90mm ammunition was used in abundance, and pozit ammunition in limited quantities, in order to secure the maximum deterrent effect on the attacking aircraft. 28 enemy planes destroyed and 5 probables was the AAA score for the 24 hour period and of these claims the 129th MA Gun Bn (M) registered 13 Cat Is and 2 Cat IIs.
“The 25th of March again saw much hostile air activity over the bridgehead area, most of it being by night. The usual type planes were employed, operating at both low and medium altitudes. In one raid, consisting of more than 20 e/a, green target marker flares, illuminating flares, and flash photo flares were dropped. Window was also employed. After being engaged most planes took violent evasive action, with a typical tactic being for the e/a to dive, climb, circle and zigzag. The planes bombed and strafed the area, but no damage was done to the bridges, of which there were now three. (See Figure .1), This period of operation cost the German Air Force 23 planes destroyed and 7 probably destroyed. The 129th AAA Gun Bn (M) was again the top AAA unit with 8 of the Cat Is to its credit.
“The final Luftwaffe activity against the Oppenheim bridgehead occurred on 26 March, when four more German planes were destroyed by AAA units and one probably destroyed”.


I hope this information is of use in your search.

Cheers

Rod

PS - I have rechecked the OKL FüSt Ic reports. On the night of 23-24 March, only NSG 1 (50 Ju87s), NSG 2 (9 Ju87s), and NAG 13 (2 Fw189s) operated against the Oppenheim bridgehead. Additionally, on 25-26 March, KG200 employed four "Mistel" aircraft "carrying V-1 Fl. bombs" against the pontoon bridges at Oppenheim. Claims of one probable hit on the northern bridge and one probable hit on the eastern abutment of the northern bridge. One Fw190 and one Ju88 (marker) missing.

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

just to add to the loss data around Oppenheim for 25-26 March 1945, from a 7. Jagddivision report made the following morning:

7. Jagddivision employed:

6 x Bf110 and 2 x Ju88 of I./NJG6 from Gross-Sachsenheim between 22.36-04.44 hrs.
6 x Bf110 and 2 x Ju88 of IV./NJG6 between 00.29 - 03.13 hrs.
8 x Ju88 of II./NJG2 from Illesheim between 01.30 - 04.16 hrs.

Losses:

1 x Ju88 of II./NJG2 - crashed in friendly territory after engine trouble from AAA damage. Crew unhurt.

2 x Ju88 and 1 x Bf110 of IV./NJG6 listed as missing.

1 x Ju88 of II./NJG2 listed as missing.

One of the missing aircraft landed at Völkenrode, but details about its identity weren't received by the time of the 7. JD report.

From the Stab NJG6 KTB the three missing NJG6 aircraft were (note - two Bf110s and one Ju88, the 7. JD report has it the other way round):

1 x Ju88 10./NJG6 Ofw. Scherer (known to have crashed behind Allied lines)
1 x Bf110, 10./NJG6, Fw. Brunner (Brunner was back with NJG6 by the end of March)
1 x Bf110, IV./NJG6, Uffz. Tschorschke (crashed at Bodenheim-Roxheim)

Presumably, either Fw. Brunner or the II./NJG2 crew landed at Völkenrode.

Cheers

Rod

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

All I can add is a deciphered German situation report which mentions Geinsheim:

CX/MSS/T497/42

Document stamped 1130/23/3.

Ground situation 23/3 10.00 hrs. Battle area Oppenheim ((M43)): enemy has ferried over fairly strong forces with amphibious tanks, rubber boats and ferries between Nierstein ((M44)) and Oppenheim and has taken Geinsheim ((M44)) and Wallerstaedten ((M54)) enemy tanks are firing on Grossgerau ((M54)).

To the south the enemy is trying to form a bridgehead and has begun attack via Leeheim ((M53)) (occupied by enemy) on Erfelden ((M53)). On road Oppenheim – Geinsheim – Wallerstaedten lively enemy mot. traffic. Near Nierstein, ferrying-traffic with 8 to 10 ferries. West bank of Rhine near Ginsheim ((M45)) (6 km south of Mainz) strong enemy mot concentrations recognised[.] North of Oppenheim pontoon-bridge for the greater part completed. Connectin in direction road Geinsheim – Grossgerau.

Own counter-measures in progress.

NOTE: Above believed to be from Fliegerdiv. 15.

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Thanks gentlemen,
let me update this a bit.
I attached a map with the approximate crash location marked with a black circle.
I was stationed near there from 2002 - 2005 and I was not aware that the Geinsheim I was talking about is actually Geinsheim am Rhein. There is a second Geinsheim about one hour drive south. Geinsheim am Rhein is opposite of Nierstein, which itself is just ENE of Oppenheim.
The parts are from either a Ju-88, or a Ju-188. We did not find enough to pinpoint the exact type. The plan was to conduct a full excavation as we were told the crew is supposedly still missing, but this never happened as I was stationed further north in 2005.

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Hello,

Uffz. Römer, shoot down with an BF 110 also from IV./NJG 6 25. March 1945 by US-AAA meet Ofw. Portugall and Kowttwith at PoW in Kaiserlautern. They told him, that Ofw.Scherer was dead and Ofw. Kohlhöfer badly wonded!
(Written memory from Uffz Römer after the war)ö.
h.

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

I have this Ju 88, 4R+EM of 4./NJG 2, shot down in the Oppenheim bridge head at 2050 hrs on 24 March.

Another message, dated 1024 hrs on 28 March, refers to signal "U.S. 262" which is missing from the file and says "further interrogation reveals unit was 8./NJG 4."

Source: TNA AIR 40/2982.

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Hi Hans,

thanks for this interesting information. Uffz. Horst Römer was the Bordfunker in Fw. Josef Brunner's crew. Your post suggests that their Bf110 did indeed crash (unless Uffz. Römer baled out early). As mentioned, Fw. Brunner made it back to his unit.

Cheers

Rod

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Hello,
Uffz. Römer remember, that the Bf 110 hit the River Rhein or near by the riverbank. Fw. Brunner was hit hanging in the Parachute and became PoW by French Forces!!!!! Uffz. Felbermaier make it back to Gerolzhofen.
By the way Ofw. Scherer was an born Luxembourg Citizien!! (Zolver Grand Ducale de Luxembourg.
The crew Uffz. Herbert Tschorschke, Uffz. Karl-Friedrich Ebel und OG Alois Lidl, also lost 25./26. March 1945. Römer meet them also as PoW in Kaiserslautern.
h.

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

thanks for the additional information.

A signal from NJG6 Geschwaderkommodore Maj. Lütje dated 30 March 1945 stated that Fw. Brunner was transferred to Stab NJG6 with immediate effect and he was to be sent to Unterslauersbach airfield at once. This suggests Josef Brunner evaded or escaped and made it back to German territory. I doubt the message would have been sent if Brunner was missing.

PS - Uffz. Herbert Tschorschke died. He's buried in Block 4 Row 1, Grave 1754 at the Kriegsgräberstätte in Dahn.

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Hello RodM,
Josef Brunner was a Pilot with the new Bundesluftwaffe from 1957 onwards. He fly Noratlas Transportplanes. He come to dead when a lot of woodpanels as Cargo in the Noratlas go over and he was hit by the panels!!!!
h.

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

So now I guess we have two possible candidates:
Ju 88 G-6, 622136, 4R+IN of 5./NJG 2, as mentioned by Matti, and Ju 88 G-6, 4R+EM of 4./NJG 2, as mentioned by Nick, both shot down in the area of the Oppenheim bridgehead on 23 and 24 March respectively. Is there any information available on the fate of the 4./NJG 2 crew?
I have a book about NJG 2, but it only covers 1. Group :(

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

The 4./NJG2 crew are all recorded in the post-war DRK-Vermisstenbildliste (see attached image).

Riebe, Otto
Ing. Praktikant
30.11.19 W
Düsseldorf
Uffz.
Wiesbaden 3.45

Thoma, Alfred
Abiturient
25.4.22 A
Würzburg
Uffz.
Langendiebach 3.45

Bordne, Karl
Schlosser
15.4.22 B
Ilversheim/Baden
Ogfr.
Wichau 3.45

Of the 5./NJG2 crew, the two missing crew members - Uffz. Doering and Ofw. Stuesser - aren't recorded in the DRK-Vermisstenbildliste or listed in the Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge e.V. online database.

I hope Matti can elucidate on the 23 March 1945 missing date for the 4./NJG2 crew. All the original German documentary sources I have (including mulitple II./NJG2 crew FBer) throw doubt on that date.

Cheers

Rod

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Hi,

I believe Scherer crashed at or near Hassloch, immediately east of Rüsselheim and some 12 kilometres NE of the crash site at Hessenau.

Cheers

Rod

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Gents,

I'm looking for some help please regarding the JU88 which crashed on the 25th or the 26th of March 1945. The aircraft was flown by a pilot and crew from Group IV of the Nachtjagdgeschwader 6 (Night Fighter Squadron 6). The target was the bridge at or near Oppenheim which was in American hands at the time. Peter Spoden who was also a pilot in NJG6 remembered this mission saying they received very heavy anti-aircraft fire from US troops from the ground. Two more aircraft (Me 110) went missing and many were damaged.

The particular JU88 I'm asking about was flown by Oberfeldwebel Hermann Scherer and was badly shot up in the attack. According to family sources and information from the surviving crew, he brought the aircraft away from the area and climbed high enough for the rest of the crew to bale out (they all survived the war) but he was wounded and didn't make it, perhaps going down with the aircraft. The official diaries record that the aircraft went missing in the area between Oppenheim to the north and Worms / Haßloch to the south. I'm trying to discover where the aircraft crashed and whether the pilot was in it, or if he parachuted out but didn't survive. His body was finally interred in the German war cemetery at Andilly near Metz in northern France so perhaps his body and/or the aircraft landed in France?

I'm aware of some brilliant help I received some time ago on this forum, and thanks for that but now I'm just trying to fill in some of the blanks so any help or information you could supply would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Eric: I am not sure that, so late in the war and the details that have been already put on this thread, you will get much more than has already been said?

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Thanks Chris - a lot of information came from this forum (thanks!) - just hoping to pin down the crash site as hoping to visit there and his grave in the future.

Thanks,
Eric

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Hello,
Ofw. Scherer first Graveside was St. Avold, this was doing by US-Forces. Later (after the war?) he was reburied at Andilly. The Volksbund at Kassel must have the orignal US-Documents about this case.
h.

Re: Need Help. Possible Ju-188 loss, Geinsheim area
 

Many thanks hans - great information!