French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hi Guys

Can anyone out there please help with info on the French H-75A-4 aircraft. I'm trying to find out if their serials carried on after the H-75A-3 aircraft or if they restarted the serial count.

Any photo evidence would be gratefully recieved (just of the rudder)

Thanks

Buz

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Yes they did restart, because this model was called "H-751".

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Thanks for the Info,

Makes it intresting that the numbers were restarted but Curtiss did not restart the Customer no's. Additionally Curtiss record's that the A-2 aircraft were A-1 Aircraft, and do not mention any A-2 aircraft to the French at all.

Buz

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Could be. The difference was in the armament, maybe not sufficient for Curtiss to change their designations.

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Here is a picture of Curtiss H751 Nr 83 taken in Fort-de-France, Martinique, in 1940. H751 designation is cearly seen on the fin.

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

The H-75A-4 / 751 had a different motor which required a different shape engine cowling. Only five or six ever arrived in France.

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hello Steven,

To confirm your mail.

From Air Enthusiast Vol 2 No:1 (Jan 72).
"It was proposed to assemble the Hawk 75A-4s at La Rochelle as well as Bourges, but only six had been officially taken on strength by the Armée de l' Airat the time of the Armistice. Thirty were in process of being unloaded at La Rochelle in June when the vessel that had transported them across the Atlantic was sunk, taking most of the fighters with it to the bottom of the harbour.
Seventeen others were disembarked at Martinique and a further six at Guadeloupe after the vessels carrying them to France had been diverted."

Also of the 135 A-3s two were kept in the USA for testing.

Alex

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Alex,
Your infos are 34 years old... Would you trust any Air International article of the seventies on the Bf 109?
We have made a lot of work and many new discoveries over here since then. We are working on an article on the H-751s (or H-75A-4s).
Will let you know when it is published.

Chris

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hello CJE :) ,

While some of my magazines are 34 years old I am a lot older.

You may have made discoveries in the USA but then the aircraft was built there so that is where the information would be .

We here in Great Britain would not have easy access to it as you.

From what I have there is nothing very much new that has been mentioned either on this website or any other that I am aware of that has shed any information that is fresher than that from the Air Enthusiast Magazine issues in Vol 1 and 2 that I have.

So Mock Not you too may be old one day.:)

Alex

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

I assume we belong to the same generation, I'm 58.

No mockery, sorry if you felt it like this. It was not my intention.

It's not the archives of the country where the H-75s were built that matters (though there are minor discrepencies in the Curtiss archives) but those of the country where they were delivered, re-assembled and flown. More than 4 A-4s were pressed into service. As to the deliveries, a friend of mine dug up the bills of lading of the merchantmen. That's a very interesting piece of data.

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hello CJE,:)

Thanks for the reply.

I see that our data is not that far out.

My quote from Air Enthusiast 34 years old info re the C-75A-4's-

only six had been officially taken on strength

and your more up to date remark -

More than 4 A-4s were pressed into service.

Alex ;)

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hello everybody,

CJE is right Alex as your data about H-75s' are mostly outdated and beside, I never read anything accurate in many US/English publications up till now on this subject. Almost everything is incorrect from the French orders to the deliveries of this airplane :

- The first French Air Commission contract was #1035/8 from Sept.9, 1938 was signed for 100 airframes, propellers, spare parts and tools ammounting for $4,820,691.51 ; it was fully delivered and paid (in advance) ; this contract was redesignated later by the joint Anglo-French Air Commission as contract F-697.
Those airplanes were designated H-75A-1 by Curtiss-Wright Corp. Buffalo N.Y. and they received French Army S/ns 1-100 in Buffalo with Factory C/ns 12798/12897.

- The second contract was #6 (F-160) from Mar.5, 1939 was signed for 100 airframes, propellers and spare parts ammounting $4,007,586.88 ; it was fully delivered and paid. Those airplanes were designated H-75A-2 by Curtiss and received S/ns 101-200 with Factory C/ns 12932/13031. (What is your source Buz ?!)

- The third contract was #37 (F-273) from Oct.5, 1939 was signed for 630 airframes, propellers and spare parts ammounting for $23,464,560, on which $16,601,297.60 was paid in advance.
On this total of 630, only 530 airframes were ordered as H-75s' and a hundred as H-81s'. After further negociations with Curtiss and US Authorities, the French Air Commission was allowed to reduce the H-75s' number by 130 and obtained the same amount of H-81s' instead. The final deal was then reached with the manufacturer by picking the Curtiss-Wright R-1820 G205A engine for 265 of the remaining H-75s' and by adding another 20 H-75s' with a new contract #53 (F-158), Nov.15, 1939 which included 20 airframes, 20 R-1820 and 12 sets of spare wing panels ; the bill amounted for $1,024,560 more, on which $521,400 was paid in advance.

Now we can summarize the schedule for contracts #37 (F-273) & #53 (F-158) as :
- 135 H-75A-3, French Army S/ns 201-335 with Factory C/ns 13671/13805 ;
- 285 H-75A-4, with French H-751 designation because of the new engine, French Army S/ns 1-285 and factory C/ns 13806/14090 ;
- 230 H-81s', factory C/ns 14091/14220 and 14446/14545 ;

So what about the deliveries ?
- 135 H-75A-3 were delivered to and reached France.
- 81 H-751 were delivered to France and 204 diverted to Britain.
- the total order of H-81 was diverted to Britain.

Now, I guess it was more than correct when CJE wrote this : "More than 4 A-4s were pressed into service."

Regards,
Olivier Bacca.

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hi,

When I went to school six was more than four which is what was in my first posting.

While I do not wish in any way to start any kind of dissagreement over this I stand by the information I have to hand in the books and magazines that I have.
The details that you give here today , mostly is given in the Air Enthusiast issues that I have and also the Air Britain book on Lease lend.

Thanks anyway for confirmation of info.

Alex

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

I believe Cuny and Beauchamp (Curtiss Hawk 75; Docavia Edition) also indicate that 5 or 6 A-4s / 751 were put in service.

So perhaps the issue is the difference between the number that arrived, and the number actualy put on the line (75 still in crates?)

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Oliver

- The second contract was #6 (F-160) from Mar.5, 1939 was signed for 100 airframes, propellers and spare parts ammounting $4,007,586.88 ; it was fully delivered and paid. Those airplanes were designated H-75A-2 by Curtiss and received S/ns 101-200 with Factory C/ns 12932/13031. (What is your source Buz ?!)

My source is the "Curtiss Billing Ledger" - which I think in the realm of sources is a little better than most

Buz

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hello Alex,
Well, I get the funny side of you post with "four and six" but I also read what you quoted from Air Enthusiast :

"From Air Enthusiast Vol 2 No:1 (Jan 72).
"...Thirty were in process of being unloaded at La Rochelle in June when the vessel that had transported them across the Atlantic was sunk, taking most of the fighters with it to the bottom of the harbour."

This part is a pure Legend as it is supposed to be the Champlain sinking but I can tell you that absolutely no H-75s' were ever on board of this merchant when she sank and all arrived safe. I verified this particular fact myself on the archives. Albeit you can read the same story on the best French source mentioned by Modeldad (Cuny / Beauchamps)

"Also of the 135 A-3s two were kept in the USA for testing."
This other point in wrong too : all A-3 were delivered.

and from your other post :
"You may have made discoveries in the USA but then the aircraft was built there so that is where the information would be."

In fact, most of the discoveries came from the French archives ; the last information provided from the USA is the one given to The Fighter Collection (S. Grey) by the Curtiss-Wright Historical Association which give the C/n 12881 to the French H-75A-1 N°82...
Again, it's proved to be wrong. Lionel Persyn found exactly what this recovered wreck C/n is : 13887 ; it's a A-4 transfered from North Africa after being re-engined with a Pratt & Whitney R-1830 in 1945. There is zero doubt now that the real N°82 C/n 12879 was the Finnish CUc-568.

On the other part, I agree that Air Britain "The British Air Commission and Lend-Lease" is the most accurate source about what was delivered to Britain, beside it's mentioned in the Mohawk profile part that 204 were Mohawk III and IV which contradict their listing were it's 204 Mohawk IV (French) plus 5 Mohawk III (from Norway). There is little confusion with their numbers and type given as they did not sort out that contract F-158 was only Mohawk IV.

For a complete and detailed account of what was finnaly used by l'Armée de l'Air, you will have to wait for the publication of Lionel Persyn's work which is outstanding concerning this aircraft in French service. I guess CJE will publish an article about that in the near future.

Regards,
Olivier Bacca.

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hello Buz,

Thank you for your answer and excuse my ignorance of this particular source that I don't know about. Any chance to find it somewhere ?

Regards,
Olivier Bacca.

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

The exact number of H-75 A-4 (H-751 in Armée de l’Air parlance) taken into account by the Armée de l’Air before France’s collapse is not know with precision. Here are a few facts extracted from Jean Cuny and Gérard Beauchamp excellent book Curtiss H-75 Hawk (Docavia/Editions Larivière, Paris, 1985) and from my own researches :

- On May 1st 1940, H-751 s/n 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 left NYC on board of SS Île de France destination unknow but most probably Saint-Nazaire.
- On May 30th 1940, H-751 s/n 1, 26, 27, 28 to 52, 53 to 58 were awaiting shipment in NYC harbor.
- About 30 H-751 were loaded on SS Champlain. On June 17th, the ship was hit by a mine and sunk in front of La Rochelle. On June 21st the wreck was definitively destroyed by torpedoes lauched by German submarine U.65.
- About 25 H-751 of which 14 incomplete were unloaded in Casablanca, Marocco, a few days after the armistice.
- On July 1st 1940, H-751 s/n 15 was at Saint-Laurent-de-la-Salanque airfield in the SW of France (I personnaly find dubious this assessment).
- On June 16th 1940, the French Navy aircraft carrier Béarn and cruiser Jeanne d’Arc left Halifax (Canada), bound for Brest. On board of those vessels were loaded :
Béarn :44 Curtiss CW.77 (SBC-4 Helldiver), 25 Stinson 105 all crated, 6 Brewster Buffalo destined to the Belgian AF and 17 Curtiss H-751 of which serial numbers were : 59 to 64, 83, 85, 86, 88 to 90, 92 to 94, 96 and 97. The last two, were unassembled and crated.
Jeanne d’Arc : 6 Curtiss H-751 s/n 79 to 82, 84 and 86, all unassembled and crated and 8 Stinson 105 also crated.
The Curtiss H-751 were part of an order placed on October 5th 1939 by the French government for 530 machines. The balance of this order, as well as others, was later transferred to the British purchasing commission in the USA.

- On June 18th, Brest harbour fell into German hands and both vessels were diverted to Fort-de-France in Martinique where they arrived the 27th. On 29th Jeanne d’Arc was ordered to sail to Pointe-à-Pitre in Guadeloupe. Both ships, as well as others, were to remain in French Antilles until 1943.

- Soon after their arrival in their respective harbours, Béarn and Jeanne d’Arc were unloaded. In Fort-de-France, the Curtiss CW-77, the Brewster Buffaloes and the 15 assembled H-751 were rolled to a field at the Pointe des Sables and stored in the open. The two crated H-751 and the Stinsons were left on board the Béarn. In Pointe-à-Pitre, the six Curtiss crated and the Stinsons were stored in a harbour warehouse.

- This situation remained unchanged until 1942. Under tropical climatic conditions, the aircraft stored in the open were slowly rotting and were no longer airworthy. On May 12th, due to the misunderstanding of an order, all the aircraft stored at the Pointe des Sables were sabotaged ! The 15 H-751s were heavily damaged by fire.

- In 1943, following the Anglo/American landings in Morocco and Algeria of November 1942, French Antilles joined fighting France and orders was given to the Naval authorities in Martinique to ship to Morocco whatever aeronautical equipments was available in Fort-de-France and Pointe-à-Pitre (including parts recuperated at the Pointe des Sables destroyed a/c). In August, the six H-751 stored in Pointe-à-Pitre were transported in Fort-de-France for shipment to Marocco.

Thus, the eight H-751s crated which escaped the sabotages were shipped as follows :
- On March 12th 1944, s/n 96 and 97, (ex Béarn) on SS Oregon which left FdF, bound for Casablanca, were she arrived on March 30th.
- On December 12th 1944, s/n 79, 80 and 81, (ex Jeanne d’Arc) on SS Sagittaire which left FdF, bound for Casablanca, were she arrived on January 19th 1945.
- On June 15th 1945, s/n 82, 84 and 86, (ex Jeanne d’Arc) on SS Hamlin Garland which left FdF, bound for Marseille. Date of arrival unknown but somewhere between the end of June and beginning of July.

So, at least 8 additionnal H751 were taken into account by the Armée de l’Air. However, the fate of those a/c remains a triffle mysterious. It has been written that due to reliability problems with the Wright R-1820 engines ands spare parts shortage, they a/c were remotorized with Pratt & Whitney R-1830 of which stocks were still available and put into service in flying schools and other miscellaneous units.

One last thing, although denied by its present ownner and a few French “experts”, most of the knowledgeable French historians are convinced that the H-75 magnificently restored in the UK is in fact the H-751 s/n 82 remotorized in France after WWII and put into service at Cazaux. But that’s another story...

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Only the 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8. I'm not CJE's friend and I didn't have access to Takata's research in the French Navy's archives, but I did look at the document mentioned by CJE (and of which Takata is also aware). If you can wait a few months for Lionel Persyn's book, it will update your Docavia.

The 6 as well as the 9 to 25 left on May 10 on the Pierre Louis-Dreyfus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucien (Post 30834) - On May 30th 1940, H-751 s/n 1, 26, 27, 28 to 52, 53 to 58 were awaiting shipment in NYC harbor.

The 1 + the 26-58 left on 25 May on the Indochinois, which sailed with convoy HX46 and reached St-Nazaire on 11 June. None were loaded on Champlain. I'd be very interested in the source for this urban legend. The Champlain did sink as reported, and it may have carried various boxes labelled "Curtiss" that would have been evacuated (I still need to check on that). But no H-75, that's a definite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucien (Post 30834) - On June 16th 1940, the French Navy aircraft carrier Béarn and cruiser Jeanne d’Arc left Halifax (Canada), bound for Brest. On board of those vessels were loaded :

Minor nitpick: the 86 is reported twice in your list. The one that sailed in Jeanne d'Arc is the 87.

Fully agreed about the rest of the post, including the last paragraph

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hello Lucien,

I did read your excellent article "Les oubliés des Antilles" published few years ago and it was very well researched, however, every research in history should be considered as a work in progress and you should not be so affirmative with that statement :
Actually, Lionel Persyn is probably able to make a very close statement on each case due to his own extensive research on this subject. Moreover, Louis Capdeboscq and myself had researched another part of this case which cross-checked everything he was able to find out about that shipping and deliveries question. So I'm more than confident that this case will be almost entirely resolved pretty soon and published. Take in mind that the whole question do not belong to a single document but it's based on many that are showing a barely complete picture of those facts with individual and collective evidence for each aircraft.

For example, the shipping document for this particular cargo is showing few discrepancies with your list ;
Here is the following H-751s' carried, beside thirteen of the last fourteen H-75A-3 :
ILE DE FRANCE du 1er Mai 1940
N°02, c/n 13807,
N°03, c/n 13808,
N°04, c/n 13809,
N°05, c/n 13810,
N°07, c/n 13812,
N°08, c/n 13813,
All of which were assembled in Toulouse and issued to retreating units in their way to North Africa. Here comes certainly the legend that only six H-751 ever reached France.

I won't comment on all your other points as I mentioned, we'll have to wait for this to be published soon, but I can confirm that the Champlain had no H-75s' on board when she sank and that all eighty one H-751 which were on hand by the French at the time of the armistice are localized and the final fate of very few is still uncertain. More clearly, the very few that we are still trying to address the fate are part of those which were captured by the Germans.

Finally, I'll take this occasion to ask every reader of this thread some help if they are able to contribute in providing primary German sources about any H-75 captured. We will appreciate it very much !

Regards,
Olivier Bacca.

PS : Hello Bronsky !! :-)

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Caramba !!
private joke, isn't it ?
well, how do you know then ?
I had a lot of faith on my co-researcher but this is a hard proof that he's trying to misinform us... :-D

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

:) Oooooh,

this thread is Great.

many thanks to all who are participateing.

My interest in at the start was only to find out more on those that were used by Little Norway in Canada.:)

But I was distracted by all the members imput.:D

What info I have is I admit not all that up to date but I do try to share it with others at no cost. I do not have unlimited resources either so all of these new books(?) will be out of my reach and definitely not available at my local library. I am still in the process of saveing for Tony Mireless's book on American Crashsites at over £100 plus postage from the US.

I did not know the names of the ships mentioned or their cargo's. But even that seems to be in contension, so I won't even go there.;) The detail re the a/c aboard each one is very interesting though, specialy those that went on to Martinique and Guadeloupe. Small in number. checks out with the photo that was attached to an earlier posting here.

Well done ALL

Thanks
Alex

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

H75A-1

12879

X-881

France

82

Finland

CU-568

A-1

From my Excel sheet.

Alex

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hi Oliver

Would it please be possible for you to contact me off board at buznsue@mydesk.net.au

Alex

The aircraft you are after are as follows
Type Number C/N Date Del Country

H-75 1 14546 3-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 2 14547 16-Dec-40 Norway H-75A8
H-75 3 14548 16-Dec-40 Norway H-75A8
H-75 4 14549 16-Dec-40 Norway H-75A8
H-75 5 14550 20-Dec-40 Norway H-75A8
H-75 6 14551 20-Dec-40 Norway H-75A8
H-75 7 14552 20-Dec-40 Norway H-75A8
H-75 8 14553 24-Dec-40 Norway H-75A8
H-75 9 14554 24-Dec-40 Norway H-75A8
H-75 10 14555 30-Dec-40 Norway H-75A8
H-75 11 14556 30-Dec-40 Norway H-75A8
H-75 12 14557 30-Dec-40 Norway H-75A8
H-75 13 14558 2-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 14 14559 3-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 15 14560 3-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 16 14561 3-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 17 14562 8-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 18 14563 7-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 19 14564 7-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 20 14565 9-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 21 14566 9-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 22 14567 14-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 23 14568 14-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 24 14569 15-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 25 14570 15-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 26 14571 17-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 27 14572 17-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 28 14573 23-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 29 14574 23-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 30 14575 24-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 31 14576 29-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 32 14577 29-Jan-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 33 14578 4-Feb-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 34 14579 4-Feb-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 35 14580 4-Feb-41 Norway H-75A8
H-75 36 14581 4-Feb-41 Norway H-75A8

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hello Buz,

Thanks I have them. but will check to see if I have them all.USA crashed a/c and Peru too. Also details on Norwegian losses in Canada
Somewhere I have a small list of three or four that were crashed with the luftwaffe. Have to look for it.
Alex



Alex

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hi,

Re the British Mohawks ( including the five ex Norwegian) But not counting the Little Norway ones in Canada. But including the Ex Iranian a/c used in India
I make the list about 246 or so quite higher than the 204 a/c noted in an earlier post.
Thats not including any ex French that may have crossed to Great Britain after the fall of France. On which does anyone have details of any that did? I have found nothing at all.
If there were some then the number could be as high as 250.

Alex

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hi Alex,
Deliveries recorded under both French contracts F-156 and F-273 :

AR630-634 (5)........Aug/Dec 1940
AR635-694 (60).....Aug/Dec 1940
AX880-898 (19).......Nov/Dec 1940
BB918-937 (20)......Sep 1940/Mar 1941
BB938-973 (-)........undelivered
BB974-979 (6)........Sep 1940/Mar 1941
BJ434-453 (20).......Oct 1940/Jan 1941
BJ531-550 (20).......Oct 1940
BJ574-588 (-)........undelivered
BK569-588 (20)......Nov/Dec 1940
BK876-879 (4)........Nov 1940/Jan 1941
BL220-223 (4)........Dec 1940
BS730-738 (9)........Oct 1940
BS739-743 (-)........undelivered
BS744-747 (4)........Oct 1940
BS784-798 (15)......Dec 1940/Mar 1941
BT470-472 (3)........Mar 1941
Total..........204*

(*) in fact, this total is 209 because the first five AR630-634 are H-75A-6 from the Norvegian contract. Some batches of serial are undelivered and if you discount those, the total should be right... but one :

Serial AX799, found with 5th
Squadron/ 151 OTU / 208 MU, lost in Jodhpur 7.6.1942.

On the other hand, "Number 10" arrived at A&AEE on 11th July 1940, and is supposed to be a Mohawk IV. This one is obviously a French one escaped from France and the H-751 N°10 c/n 13815 is missing as well in France. We still need to check this aircraft in British archives, but I guess it's the same plane escaped from Bourges around 15th June piloted by a Czech or Polish pilot.

Regards,
Olivier Bacca.

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Lucien:

Is this the restored aircraft which you mentioned. I would be most interested if you could give me more details on it. Anything you can.

you may even contact me directly at modeldad@verizon.net

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eplanepix/36SIDEVIEW3sm.jpg

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hello everybody !

YES modeldad, when Lucien writes that n°82, 84 and 86 left Fort de France on 15th june 1945, bond to Marseille, he speaks about the only n°82 still in the French AA at this date, the A4.
And we found the hard proof that she was in Cazaux during 1949, featuring a P&W Engine !

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Interestint. Here is what the restorers at the Fighter Factory have to say about it:



All that's known about the history of the aircraft at the moment is that the a/c was shipped to the French Air Force in April 1939 and issued to GC 11/5 at Reims, thereafter based at Toul during the battle of France and then made its way to Oran, Algeria before the Armistice. From 1940 to '42 the Squadron was engage in sporadic fights with British aircraft such as Sunderlands, Hudsons, Fulmars, Wellingtons over Algeria, Tunisia and Morroco, plus USN Wildcats.
In 1946 until 1949 it was on the strength of the 4th Training Squadron at Cazaux in western France with 22 others. It was saved from scrapping by Michel Pont in the '50's and been in storage in France until the '80's until TFC moved it to Duxford.

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

It seems that they mixed up the careers of the two n°82.

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Si non e vero e bello...

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Wing Guns

The A-1 had one in each wing

The A-4 / 751 had two in each wing.

The restored aircraft has only 1. Was this the result of conversion for training and then restoration, using only one gun beliveing it was an A-1?

Additional piuctures posted under "fair use" - source unknown.

http://home.earthlink.net/~planepix1/frontend.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~planepix1/Hawk751A4.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~planepix1/36REARVIEW.jpg

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

S~
from what I can see when this aircraft was still flying after the war, he had none on the wings...
(picture published in the "Fana de l'aviation")
http://moh-ker.9online.fr/france40/Curtiss13887.jpg

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Thanks. Great picture.

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Look what I found in my computer files!

Poor quality picture, but the upper surface could be a single color. Brown?

Comments? When? Where?

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eplanepix1/A4H751.jpg

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hello
my quess is at Bourges

Juha

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hello Oliver,

I am Red Faced:o .....must learn to count:o .

I checked what I have and it is -

AR630-634 - (5) Ex Norwegian
AR635-694 - (60)
AX799 - (1)
AX880-898 - (19)
BB918-923 - (6)
BB925-937 - (13)
BB974-979 - (6)
BJ434-453 - (20)
BJ531-550 - (20)
BK569-588 - (20)
BK876-879 - (4)
BL220-223 - (4)
BS730-738 - (9)
BS744-747 - (4)
BS784-798 - (15)
BT470-472 - (3)
HK823 - (1)
LA157-165 - (9) Ex Iran

Total = 219

my number is still not the same as yours,

Where do we differ ? in which serial block ? I cannot see it ?

:o Alex

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hello Alex,

BB924 (1) ? (not listed in Air Britain listing but listed in Air Britain Lend lease)

and...
HK823 is not from the French contract.
may be an ex-French, escaped from AOF (Sgt Milan)
delivered to FAFL.
AOF = Afrique Orientale Française
FAFL = Forces Aériennes Françaises Libres

In fact, my list is one wrong and yours without BB924 seems ok :
219 total
less 5 Norway
less 9 Persia
less 1 unknow
Total = 204 (which is the number found in British and French archives)

I still have to verify all this in PRO if I can find the individual file for each aircraft.

Regards,
Olivier Bacca.

Re: French H-75A-4 aircraft
 

Hi Oliver,

I wondered about the BB924 , Have both books so yes in one not in other.

HK823 is noted as 71 OTU (so i think Egypt) collided with Tomahawk AN317 and crashed 13.12.41.

So that might not be one from the UK. Other types were forwarded to the Middle East from here so it just might be the one.

The number "10" is that 12807 - X809 or 13815 ?
I think that some that were Indian built were not given RAF serials but did see RAF or IAF service while others (only a few) were passed on to China.

Great photographs Steven has shown to us here. Thank you Steven:)

And Thank you :) Oliver for your help.

I wish that I could get to the PRO as easy as you guy's seem to be able to do all the time, there are lots of things that I would like to look into but apart from getting there there is the cost of the Hotel stay and PRO charges too. Ah well I dream on. I did at one time want to look at the POW's lists from Italy but the cost was over £100, that is without the postage to me. So I forgot that search.

Good night,
Alex