NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

Can you help me ? I'm looking forward if the Lutwaffe had establissed an nomenclature of Air bases in France. I'm particularly interested in the designation of Nantes flugplatz between june 1940 and august 1944.
Thanks for all

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

Gofridus,

Are you thinking the Germans gave each of their airfields a number like the USAAF did for its airfields? I have had a look through various books but cannot find any reference to a number system that the Luftwaffe used for its own airfields - and so I think they would be referred to only by place name. Alfred Price makes no mention of it in his books.

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

Hi,
Each Lw base had a covername and a number. Please see:
"Fliegerhorste und Einsatzhafen der Luftwaffe", K. Ries/W. Dierich, ISBN 3-613-01486-6. Attached is a sample from the map annexed to the book.
bregds
SES

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

SES,
is it not more like a location-name and a cover-up number, instead of "a covername and a number"?
And is the "Tarnzahl" only assigned to NF bases, as in your quote?

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

Hi Chris,
Iaw the book I refered to there was a "cover-name" Decknahme for each airfield e.g. Grove was Isar. I'm not sure if only the NF bases had numbers, but I suspect that they all did.
bregds
SES

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

SES,
thank you for clarifying that.

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

Hi SES. I think your attached list is not one of airfield code numbers, rather the numbers of the Fliegerhorstkommandantur (which could control a group of airfields).

Decrypted material usually referred to airfields by a three-digit number and the Allies gradually deduced which was which (helped because adjacent numbers were often close together on the map). Examples are:

Italy:
251 Viterbo
299 Castiglione del Lago
450 Osoppo
508 Bologna
562 Piacenza

France:
510 Montpellier
517 Toulouse
518 Toulouse-Francazal
532 Aix les Milles
536 Istres

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

The document on Tarnzahlen für Flugplätze issued for Feb 1945 by Luftflottenkommando Reich contains 4 digit numbers and there is at least a set of three numbers for each airfield. Som airfields have more options.

Regards,

Norbert

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

Nick,
I came across some four digit number for airfields in Germany in the HW5 files
1107 Vechta
1495 Bad Lippspringe
1680 Gütersloh
Also there were codes like
NABEF II./NJG.4
NADEF II./NJG.6
Do you know if these codes changed during the war? Or did a gruppe always had the same code?

Dennis

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

All your answers were very interesting for me. I thank you very much. Well if you have a few other informations about
"Nantes Flugplatz", please can you continue to insert them in this forum.
All the best
Alain

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

In the decrypted material from about autumn 1944 onward, these 5-letter words appear, so I'm guessing the system came in after the campaign in France. They are not specific to a unit, from what I have seen. So for example NABEF = the second Gruppe of ANY Nachtjagdgeschwader.

There were words for the third Gruppe of a Jagdgechwader, the first Staffel of a Kampfgeschwader, a Flak Division and so on. I only have a few examples in my notes so far.

Decrypts in the spring of 1944 just have codenames for units made of with real German words or names like Eiche, Artus and so on. Greif and Sonne were parts of LG 1 for example.

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

Hello Nick,
Thanks for the explanation. I have been looking at the HW5 files looking for information on luftwaffe units in western Europe. Throughout 1943 there is not that much. Morten Jesse suggested that these units send their messages by telex cables, and were therefore not picked up by ULTRA. I have not looked at 1944, but in March 1945 more western Europe radio traffic is decoded by ULTRA. I assume that the infrastructure was breaking down and they had to resort to radio for sending their messages.

Dennis

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

These codes start appearing in Autumn 1944 but they do not belong to any one unit, it seems. So NABEF would be the second Gruppe of ANY Nachtjagdgeschwader. There were other made-up words for (e.g.) the first Staffel of a Kampfgeschwader or a Flakdivision or the thrid Gruppe of a Jagdgeschwader and so on. They then added a number to show which unit it was, so NABEF 4 = II./NJG 4.

I./NJG was NABCI so NABCI 4 = I./NJG 4

I have not yet found exactly when these codes began to appear but it seems that the Allies were able to deduce most of the meanings by about October/November 1944. There is a job for someone with a lot of free time to go through the HW5 series files and compile a list.

GOFRIDUS: I haven't seen any mention about Nantes so far. I would expect that the material for June-September 1944 would have something because the invasion provoked so much activity and so much signals traffic in France. ULTRA was no use when people used landlines, as they did when bases were well established and units not moving often.

Four-digit airfields:

4834 = Rhein-Main
4404 = Großostheim
5062 = Zellhausen

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

Hi Nick,
You could be quite right. Good thing we got this discussion started.
bregds
SES

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

Hi Dennis,
You are right about more and more orders were promulgated via radio. Due to the ground situation many HQs were forced to operate from mobile command posts please see: http://www.gyges.dk/gefechtsomnibussen.htm . In a number of cases they had an Ausweich Gefechtsstand (Alternate Command Post) please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/Luftwaffe%20comm...lities%201.htm
bregds
SES

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES IN FRANCE
 

It is noticeable in the DEFE3 files (the Ultra material first made public, long before HW5) that the bulk of Luftwaffe traffic in the February-June 1944 period is from Italy, Greece & Yugoslavia. As soon as the Allies land in France, the traffic from there dominates the files. As the situation in Italy stabilises in late summer, traffic falls away to almost nothing even from the few Luftwaffe units that were still there.

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

Nick and SES,

Thank you for your input!
Now I can make more sence of two other codes;
NACUL - III./NJG
NADEF - St.IV./NJG

who knows the code for IV./NJG ?

Dennis

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

HI Dennis,
Those 5 letter groups looks more like teletype addresses to me. A code yes - but used only inconnection with tese types of messages - but I could easily be wrong.
bregds
SES

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

Hello SES,
I'm still keeping all possibilities open. These messages were sent by radio, so there would be no need for a Teletype address I guess. But perhaps it was done out of habit.

Dennis

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

Hi
or I expressed myself clumsily. I meant to say "message address", but on closer examination of a couple of Lw signals, I can now see that those were four letter groups.
bregds
SES

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

I just found it: NACUL

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

So now we have;

NABCI I gruppe
NABEF II Gruppe NADEF Stab II gruppe
????? III gruppe
NACUL IV Gruppe


GEPLA Jafu
GEKAT Fliegerkorps
PAWAN Heavy radio beacon

Looking at NADEF and NABEF I think I can gues what the stafstaffels of other gruppe named.

ULTRA must have had a refferece book once, I wonder what happened to it?

I also found 9549 Kirchellen

Dennis

Re: NOMENCLATURE OF LUTWAFFE AIR BASES in FRance
 

NABBE is Nachtjagdgeschwader