Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

Did Luftwaffe intelligence ever discover that the men they were flying against in the 332d Fighter Group (P-39s, P-40s, P-47s and later in P-51s that had red tails) were African Americans?

I assume that American news and press reports of the Tuskegee Airmen made their way to Germany, but I'm wondering if the Jagdwaffen knew or recognized who they were flying against on any given day.

Thanks!

Bronc

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

Yes, of course. German intelligence was adept at picking up news reports from the USA through neutral countries (Portugal, Switzerland). Whether a Luftwaffe pilot could recognize a Black US pilot in combat, is hard to determine

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

And Black POWs would not escape notice. First POW from the 99th FS was on Jan 15, 1944; there were over 30 POWs from the 332nd FG by the end of the war.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

...and some of the Brazilian Air Force POW's - 1st BFS, 350th FG (shot down and captured in Italy as well) were not white as a sheet of paper as well!...since we are a mixture of races, colours, creeds, etc....

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

I somehow doubt that the average Jagdwaffe pilot obsessed about his opponents' skin colour the way that WOKEsters do these days.....

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

I seem to remember that many Germans c. 1933–45 paid a lot of attention to perceived racial distinctions.

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

Well, look at what the Wehrmacht did to the French colonial POWs they captured. There was wholesale slaughter of them. Not discussed much these days.

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

Was that kind of information outlined in a Jagdwaffe staffel mission briefing? As in, "men, intelligence suggests that today the so-called, Tuskegee Airmen, will be in the air against us. Be on the lookout for red tails."

The breath and depth of a typical Luftwaffe mission briefing has always been a question of mine.

Thanks!

Bronc

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

I would imagine that who they were up against would emerge after action rather than before, either through pilots reporting distinctive markings on opponents' planes or reports in the foreign press. Also, of course, each side listened in on the other's R/T traffic. The Allies had so many units to deploy that I doubt the German fighters would have any idea exactly who they'd face on a given sortie, just that opposition was all but inevitable.

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

No, don't let modern perceptions cloud your thinking. And keep in mind that a certain ace of JG 27 had a black man as a batman. And not all Germans of the period, even serving officers, were obsessed with race, this is simplistic, black-and-white thinking which does nothing to expand our knowledge.

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

The people they were working for—the German government of the time—were absolutely obsessed with race and recognising that is neither "modern perceptions" nor "simplistic". The NSDAP had mass support: it won 17 million votes in the election of March 1933 and according to Wikipedia: "When it came to power in 1933, the Nazi Party had over 2 million members. In 1939, the membership total rose to 5.3 million … by 1945 [it] reached its peak of 8 million". NSDAP ideology had been the norm in Germany during the childhood and adolescence of most wartime Luftwaffe aircrew. Someone reaching military age from 1939 onward had almost certainly been a member, successively, of the Jungvolk, Hitler Youth and Labour Service. This suggests to me that it would hardly be surprising if a great many Luftwaffe personnel shared the party's outlook, if only because they had so little experience of anything else.

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

Please don't jump to conclusions. That is not where I am going with this.

I was trying to come up with the most recognizable Allied fighter unit imaginable (like the Polish) and wondering if Luftwaffe intelligence would be monitoring their pre-mission radio traffic. If they could recognize who and what has happening, by keying in on that unit specifically, it might unlock Allied flight operations coming from the Mediterranean and Italy.

Before bomber raids the 8th AF B-17s would tune their radios in the early hours of that day, so before dawn Luftwaffe intelligence knew *exactly* who was coming that day.

Nothing racial about this, just recognizable.

All my Best,

Bronc

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

Nick, as a German citizen I feel I don't need a lecture on modern German politics. There seems to be a massive push in recent years to portray German society of that period as a racially obsessed construct, something which I would dispute, based in no small part on the experiences of my own family. But I don't want to hijack this thread any more than I already have.

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

Not intended as a lecture (I have a politics degree, so I hope I know a politics lecture when I hear one) just an observation based on my own conversations with Luftwaffe veterans recalling the pervasive nature of the propaganda. I would argue that the NSDAP did its best to make Germany racially-obsessed but not that it was totally successful.

P.S. I'm not sure where modern German politics starts for you (1949?) but I am a great admirer of the Bundesrepublik and the federal system.

Re: Jagdwaffe vs. 332d Fighter Group
 

LOL, my view is that modern German politics started on January 18th, 1871 and ended on May 8th, 1945. The current Bundesrepublik is a weak substitute for a real country, as evidenced by the shenanigans regarding the Wiedervereinigung of 1991.