Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php)

- Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8)

- - Flak Claims (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=61451)

Steve49

28th January 2022 15:38

Flak Claims

I'm trying to discover the document that lists Luftwaffe flak claims for the 19th August 1942.

I believe they are contained in the category 'RL40' at Bundesarchiv, but using the Invenio search engine I've not been able locate it.

Any ideas what name I should try searching with?

Regards,

Steve

ju55dk

28th January 2022 20:44

Re: Flak Claims

You have to look at RL 5.
Junker

Steve49

29th January 2022 00:09

Re: Flak Claims

Quote:

Originally Posted by ju55dk (Post 315526)

You have to look at RL 5.
Junker

Cheers, that would explain why I couldn't find anything in RL40!

Regards,

Steve

Carsten Petersen

29th January 2022 21:36

Re: Flak Claims

Hi Steve
Flak claims - where ? France or Germany ?
Carsten

Larry deZeng

30th January 2022 01:29

Re: Flak Claims

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carsten Petersen (Post 315572)

Hi Steve
Flak claims - where ? France or Germany ?
Carsten

19 Aug 42 was the date of the Dieppe Raid on the Channel coast, so this may be what he is talking about. The RAF lost 106 aircraft (at least 32 to anti-aircraft fire or accidents) against 48 German losses.

L.

Steve49

30th January 2022 12:27

Re: Flak Claims

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carsten Petersen (Post 315572)

Hi Steve
Flak claims - where ? France or Germany ?
Carsten

Hi Carsten,

I am looking for claims made by Flakuntergruppe Dieppe in response to the Dieppe raid. By my reckoning the Allied forces had 36 aircraft shot down by ground fire, so I was hoping to find some details of claims made by the German defenders.

As far as I can see the units involved were;

schwere Flak-Abteilung 345
leichte Flak-Abteilung 81(mot)
leichte Flak-Abteilung 690 (v)
leichte Flak-Abteilung 732 (v)

Sadly looking through the Bundesarchiv search function I can't see any reports from these units for this date, so I guess the documents I was hoping to find are lost.

Regards,

Steve

Steve Coates

30th January 2022 13:11

Re: Flak Claims

In terms of other files which may yield something for you, from a quick search it looks like it might be worth thinking about:

RL 20/106
RL 20/166
RL 7-3/596
RL 10/649
RL 13/21
RL 24/140
RM 7/1756 - 1760

Steve49

30th January 2022 13:19

Re: Flak Claims

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Coates (Post 315589)

Cheers Steve,

I'd tried looking for the individual units, sadly the only documents I could find for any of them was from 1944.

Regards,

Steve

Steve Coates

30th January 2022 14:35

Re: Flak Claims

All of these have something from 1942. Unfortunately, it's impossible to say exactly what but that's the thrill of the chase.

Steve49

30th January 2022 14:51

Re: Flak Claims

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Coates (Post 315593)

All of these have something from 1942. Unfortunately, it's impossible to say exactly what but that's the thrill of the chase.

Cheers,

I'll look again.

Regards,

Steve

Larry deZeng

30th January 2022 17:03

Re: Flak Claims

Quote:

schwere Flak-Abteilung 345
leichte Flak-Abteilung 81(mot)
leichte Flak-Abteilung 690 (v)
leichte Flak-Abteilung 732 (v)

I suggest you contact Theo Boiten for further information on this collection, as I believe he has used this material for his Nachtjagd books.

One cautionary note: the daily entries were entered in the logs in longhand by Luftwaffenhelferin (female auxiliaries) using coloured pencils. The handwriting is nearly illegible in places due to the deterioration of the original film and the use of different handwriting styles by the girls, including the dreaded Sütterlin.

HTH,

L.

Steve49

30th January 2022 17:31

Re: Flak Claims

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng (Post 315603)

FYI:

The most complete collection of Tages-Abschusslisten d. Flakartillerie can be found in the same microfilms used by Tony Wood for his Luftwaffe fighter victory lists. The comprehensive Flak claims are part of these same rolls. For example:
Luftwaffen-Personalamt L.P. (A) 5 (V) Film Nr. 11, Tagesliste Flak Sept. 1939 - Juli 1943.
The total collection is on 19 reels of 16-mm microfilm, but if you order any of it from BA-MA their jobber, Selke, can provide them in CD format. Almost every reel has Flak claims that give the Flak unit's designation, type of aircraft shot down, altitude of the aircraft when hit, date and place shot down.

Incidentally, all 4 of these Flak-Abteilungen did file numerous claims during the Dieppe Raid:

I suggest you contact Theo Boiten for further information on this collection, as I believe he has used this material for his Nachtjagd books.

One cautionary note: the daily entries were entered in the logs in longhand by Luftwaffenhelferin (female auxiliaries) using coloured pencils. The handwriting is nearly illegible in places due to the deterioration of the original film and the use of different handwriting styles by the girls, including the dreaded Sütterlin.

HTH,

L.

Thanks for that, I'd heard and hoped that the flak claims existed in a similar form to the aircrew victory claims.

Speaking as a BA-MA novice and none German speaker, do you know if it is easy to order copies from the BA-MA?

Regards,

Steve

Larry deZeng

30th January 2022 19:04

Re: Flak Claims

Steve wrote in part:

Quote:

Speaking as a BA-MA novice and none German speaker, do you know if it is easy to order copies from the BA-MA?
Regards,
Steve

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=61450

If you place your order directly with Selke GmbH, your order will be processed smoothly, efficiently and in a timely fashion (20 to 30 days?), but Selke will not do research for you. You must know the exact reels you want, and I think you would be able to get these from Theo Boiten. On the other hand, if you place your order directly with BA-MA Freiburg, they will research and determine which reels you need and then get back to you. Once you have the reel numbers, you can follow their ordering instructions. The whole process with BA-MA could take 3 to 4 months. Both Selke and BA-MA can handle your inquiries in English but they will write back to you auf deutsch (in German).

The most difficult part is reading (deciphering) the place names in the log entries. Sometimes these are given as coordinate references from Luftwaffe grid sheets.

L.

Carsten Petersen

30th January 2022 19:09

Re: Flak Claims

I had a feeling that it was about Dieppe, I could have helped you with Germany. Best of luck. Any Marine Flak in the Dieppe area ?

Steve49

30th January 2022 22:55

Re: Flak Claims

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carsten Petersen (Post 315610)

I had a feeling that it was about Dieppe, I could have helped you with Germany. Best of luck. Any Marine Flak in the Dieppe area ?

Hi Carsten,

Sadly no, only Luftwaffe and Army flak units in the area.

Regards,

Steve

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:50.